New Politics In Ireland, How About Here

The vote to legalize abortion in Ireland was a stunning and unexpected result, even to the winners. It is politics turned upside down.

Prior to votes to legalize gay marriage, it was assumed by many that young people would not be as involved in politics as the parents and grandparents. The Irish vote shows this is not universally the case.

In the U.S. there are an unprecedented number of women running for high offices. In Ireland, pundits noted that at the victory rallies for legalized abortion three-fourths of the attendees were women. More women than men graduate from professional schools such as medicine and law. There are slightly more women than men receiving university degrees.

Thus, when a row of men in clerical collars announced it a sin to vote for legalized abortion the Irish press assumed this would push the “no” vote over the top as it has for a century or more of Irish history. Clerical collars lost by two to one.

While politics is always about the unpredictable, it seems to me issues like anti abortion which harm women directly will be defeated by women. This week we saw, also, a stunning rebuke of the high official in the Southern Baptist Convention. First he was removed from his post but retained status and pension funds. A few days later these were taken away and all ties severed. All this over the treatment of women.

It seems to me anti abortion operatives should be negotiating a plea bargain.


12 Responses

  1. mark anthony

    It’s probably not nice to dump a little cold water on your victory parade, but……The Irish vote of course was roughly 2-1. But keep in mind that it was an either/or vote. No so called middle choice. Which is to suggest that not all of the pro-abort votes favored abortion on demand, your position that is. Similarly, if such a vote were to be held in the US, it would probably go two to one against the prolife vote. But with a lot of voters who might otherwise choose a so-called “middle” option.

  2. Henry

    “New Politics In Ireland, How About Here”

    With little to lose for the American prolifers, any change would mostly be advancing the prolife fight for individual rights of all humans. One of the remaining footholds the prolife movement could lose would be the prohibition of the skull crushing procedure of partial birth abortion. I doubt that prohibition would be changed. Instead, with change, prolife has much to gain. We have technology on our side.

  3. mark anthony

    that should be obvious. “middle option” leave it up to the states to legislate with specified exceptions (as far as I know many folks don’t like abortion but want options for “hard cases” not sweeping prohibition. for you, as I understand you, it’s abortion for any reason up to birth. only early abortions, up to three months only perhaps. OK with waiting periods and counseling, etc. got the point now?

    1. Juan Ruiz

      ” leave it up to the states to legislate ”

      Which for North Dakota would mean a legislature made up of old white-haired men who consider themselves patriarchs and citizens children. Men whose only qualification is an R after their name on the ballot. RINOs who spent oil revenue like water, maintain protectionist policies, and live in the 19th century. Hell, never mind abortion, they outlawed bottle rockets and believe everyone, Christian or not, should be in church on Sunday…then stores may open.

      1. Juan 9:45 re: Leave it up to the states to legislate.

        For whatever reason, voters in several states, often middlewestern ones like ND and Iowa, think it is just dandy to reason like wealthy goat herders did back when the Bible was written. It is reflected in the “fetal heartbeat” bill both states passed and a judge just put on hold yesterday here in Iowa. The “fetal heartbeat” bills are based on the false notion, popular five thousand some years ago, that the human heart is the brains of a person. I suppose when people back then could put their ear to the chest of someone and hear something they reasoned, “She’s in there. I can hear her thinking.”

        An animal and a human both have fetal heartbeats. Later one becomes a human, the other an animal. But, at the earliest time a heartbeat can be detected they both have the same intellectual ability, none.

        1. Juan Ruiz

          Judaism declares that a baby is a human when its head crowns. That is, when air first touches it. Those who stress no abortion believe life begins at conception. They don’t address all the fertilized eggs which never attached. God’s will or accident? In the same way I would not allow any of these people to manipulate my stock portfolio, if I were a woman, I wouldn’t let them manipulate my life.

          1. mark anthony

            What about Ps. 139? What about babies who die in infancy? What about accidental deaths? What about everyone’s ultimate end? You have posed a really Big Question.

  4. mark anthony

    Jon702. Added comment. Maybe it’s wishful thinking on my part but I think that your extremist position on abortion may eventually become a relic. The issue may eventually be settled somewhere in the middle. abortion only after counseling, no pressure on religious institutions/hospitals to conform, time limits, waiting periods, something along the lines of the Hungarian option, etc. etc. Unless the political climate continues to deteriorate (which it might) your harsh, uncompromising views are going to turn people off to your cause.

    1. mark 10:09 The issue may be settled somewhere in the middle, abortion only after counseling, no pressure on religious institutions/hospitals to conform, time limits, waiting periods…

      Anti abortion operatives have already put all this stuff in place in many states. The entire issue of abortions in clinics is evaporating. Abortions are more and more frequently done with medicines which are relatively easy to obtain. In countries where abortion is outlawed, these medicines are everywhere–as they are in Ireland.

      I have to smile at your reference to my views as “uncompromising.” Yes, I am uncompromising that women have rights during pregnancy. You have made dozens of posts here but have never, not once, said women have rights during pregnancy. I’m looking forward to hearing you outline what rights women have. That is, I’d like to see just one tiny compromise from you about that.

      1. mark anthony

        Let’s talk about justice, not rights, at least not rights as you would define the term. So, in justice: medical care, support, freedom from violence, affirmation of her role in the perpetuation of the human race, etc. But I don’t think that the principle of justice can be invoked to say that it is OK to take another human life for any reason whatsoever. Of course, any just approach to the situation posed by pregnancy must face up to the fact that there are instances in which we can legitimately choose between life a and life b. Now go ahead and scoff.

        1. mark 2:54 But I don’t think that the principle of justice can be invoked to say that it is OK to take another human life for any reason whatsoever.

          Calling one fertilized egg a human being is where anti abortion leaves the tracks and goes off into la la land.

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