The Faith Will Never Understand Gay Marriage

It’s always amusing to read Christian Right explanations of why it was defeated in its fight against gay marriage. Today one appeared explaining why gay marriage, over the objections of the Christian Right, has become accepted by the majority.

The actual reason it has become accepted by the majority is that the majority find no reason to oppose it. If there remained a reason to oppose it the majority would be a minority. It’s that simple.

But no, the Christian Right makes up other reasons it is today accepted by the majority. It’s because, the authors claim, Hollywood portrayed favorably gay characters. Then, because of what Hollywood did liberal politicians came along. This caused the public to change its mind.

But, all this time evangelicals were screaming, “It is an abomination.” The Right should explain why its screaming of abomination did not overpower public opinion and steer it away from Hollywood.

If the Right wants really to determine how it lost, it needs to figure out what happened before Step One. That is, it needs to know why Hollywood began to portray gays favorably. Hollywood, i.e., movies and TV, was sitting there needing to pay bills. Did it say, “Gosh, let’s portray gays favorably, have audiences leave us, then sponsors leave us and go broke”?

Instead, Hollywood knew before hand attitudes were changing and the public was ready for likable gay characters. If the Right doesn’t figure out why cultural attitudes changed it will never figure out why it lost.


32 Responses

  1. Jay

    No. The right is more mad when the gay’s and liberals push their beliefs onto us that don’t live that way. Just like the gays want their rights un-infringed, so does everyone else. Most people, the majority, is okay with others living their own lives as they see fit. However that changes when gays or really anyone that has different beliefs push their beliefs onto those those that don’t have similar beliefs. You talk about this pushing beliefs (IE Christian’s evangelism ) onto others all the time but it seems to be okay the other way? There will come a day where the majority will put others in their place, typically when it affects them.

    By the way majority doesn’t matter in the USA if my beliefs are different than yours, as I’m allowed to have that and my beliefs NOT trumped by urs.

    1. Jay 6:51 Thanks for posting.

      My blog was about the religious right not understanding why the majority, at least according to polls, now supports gay marriage. It is simply cultural change that happened and the majority has no reason to oppose it. The notion that it ruins heterosexual marriage or that the Bible condemns it have not carried the day because they are just not true.

      1. The one and only reason homosexual unions are recognized as law is that Americans have become more secularized. Coupled with the fact that the unelected federal judiciary has had a huge impact on its acceptance – sounds very much like Roe v. Wade – and you have major change.

        As for homosexual unions being correct or true …. not true in any normal denomination.

        1. Matt 7:40 As for homosexual unions being correct or true..not true in any normal denomination.

          Wow, and you tell me I insult believers. Entire wings of mainstream Protestant denominations now embrace gay marriage. Down the street from me is a booming congregation of the United Church of Christ. It has done same sex marriages for 10 or 15 years. Members there think it is quite normal.

          1. Well, out of the thousands of denominations, there might be a few that got marriage theology wrong. So far, none have come to me with a grievance of being insulted.

            So, entire wings of mainstream Protestant denominations were wrong since the Resurrection and now, in the 21st century, have come to the realization of their error? I would think that those in the denomination that preceded them might have a thing or two to say to the modernists.

          2. Jon, “… the other schmucks got it wrong …” You might as well get used to the idea that someone lumped all of Christianity together on a denominational basis. We don’t all agree.

            As far as that goes, atheists are not organized under 1 denomination. Therefore, every atheist is his own denomination. Consequently, there are millions of atheist denominations. Some of your own schmucks got it wrong as I’m sure they don’t all agree with you, the Pope of your denomination.

  2. Juan Ruiz

    “It’s because, the authors claim, Hollywood portrayed favorably gay characters.”

    Which is really quite ironic given all the decades studios worked to hide the fact many of their biggest stars were gay.

    1. Juan 7:54 Which is really quite ironic given all the decades studios worked to hide the fact many of their biggest stars were gay.

      It is ironic. I read a story years ago that Ron and Nancy Reagan’s regular Sunday morning routine was to visit the home of two gay men, fixtures in the Hollywood community. The men’s passion was to put on a weekly brunch and invite any and all of the Hollywood establishment. It was quite a full house regularly, the story said. But, whenever the opportunity arose, Reagan said, “I don’t approve of that lifestyle.” No doubt the two men and the many other gays in that circle also approved of Reagan saying that. They were all part of the wink-wink secret. Gay people enjoyed being in on it as much as social liberals like the Reagans.

  3. Jinx II

    It takes a while for younger people to understand equality and fairness for each and every one us, once this begins its unstoppable in a true democratic nation and world. The younger generations get it and strongly support equality for all, no matter their race, religion, gender, and sexual orientation and acceptance will continue to grow as time goes by. Younger generations are aware of numerous social issues that hurt the common person and they are supporting continued social changes that do not sit well with the religious extremists.

    1. Henry

      Jinx: “It takes a while for younger people to understand equality and fairness for each and every one us, once this begins its unstoppable in a true democratic nation and world.”

      There an atheist goes on beating up on young people and underestimating them. Quite compelling recruitment.

      1. Henry 9:54 am: Somewhat like the beating you give Roman Catholics when you libel them about gay bathhouses except no one knows which denomination you are presiding over as Pope. I’ll give Jinx II credit for an argument which he later contradicts by stating it is young people who lead the charge on change.

        1. Henry

          Not sure what you are muttering about on libel. The ball is in your court concerning the gay steambaths on Vatican owned property. These were reported by several sources. Please provide us proof of your conspiracy theory that these gay steambaths are not on Vatican property, and I will update my comments. You could provide us with an image of the recorded deed for the property address. Otherwise, it is reasonable for me to rely on the publicly reported information that the gay steambath is on Vatican owned property. Thanks.

          1. Unless you have proof of your libelous statements, like a recorded deed or a signed lease, then you are certainly guilty of bearing false witness against us Catholics. Repeating the statement that the Vatican owns the largest gay bathhouse in Europe, without any proof of the statement, is quite a problem for one who prides himself on being a Bible-believer. The ball is not in my court, as you say. As for “publicly reported information”, the Internet (your sole source) is only as accurate as what can be verified.

          2. Henry

            The gay steambath dilemma is the RCC’s. We haven’t even started asking questions like: 1. Why such a booming business so close to the Vatican? I would think everything within a fifty mile radius of the Vatican would be good, clean, and pure, riding the Vatican’s supposedly pure coat tails. Nada.
            2. Why would priests want to even live that close to something so opposed to their supposed beliefs?
            3. Why was AIDS such a disproportionate struggle for priests in the 80’s and 90’s?
            4. Why so many disproportionate sexual crimes with priests?

            Something is filthy, rotten, and stinking within the RCC structure.

        2. The Vatican searches for suitable office space close to the Vatican when it requires proximity to the Vatican. From what I can tell, the Vatican or some organization in the Catholic Church rented 20 units in a building that also housed the immoral business. You seem to think the Vatican owns all the property within 50 miles of St. Peter’s. That is as crazy as the US Government owning all real estate within 50 miles of the White House, Congress or the Supreme Court.

          As for priests or the Church being so close to a den of sinners, I have to wonder what you think the Church’s mission is in this world? Is it to distance itself from sinners or is it to preach the Gospel to sinners? I know the answer and it is, without doubt, the answer which models the life of Christ. Christ lived among sinners and preached to them. He came to the aid of prostitutes and had supper with tax collectors. Henry, don’t run from sinners! Embrace them as their brother and love them as Christ loves them!

          I have no idea why you reference in regards to AIDS and the 80s and 90s.

          I have seen no stats on whether or not there is an inordinate proportion of sex crimes committed by priests than other citizens. I would estimate the number to be much lower than the average adult male. If you have stats stating otherwise, please reference them here.

          Every church, denomination and religion has its share of sinners. The Devil has been known to attack that which is of God. The Devil loves scandal because it leads people away from Christ.

          It sure seems like you and Jon love trying to tear down the Roman Catholic Church.

          1. Henry

            MN: “You seem to think the Vatican owns all the property within 50 miles of St. Peter’s.”

            That wasn’t what was said. Your reading comprehension needs remedial work.

            MN: “Henry, don’t run from sinners! Embrace them as their brother and love them as Christ loves them!”

            Uhm…….what do you think I am doing on this blogsite? Clearly you are not paying attention. One could indeed go the pietistic approach, mind their own business, isolate, and secretly celebrate about how good they are. However, here I am. You are like a bull in a china shop.

            But now we have from you the justification (at the very worst) based on reports why the RCC is landlord to gay steambaths, and at best why the RCC pools/comingles funds with an organization to share a building with a gay steambath.

            MN: “I have no idea why you reference in regards to AIDS and the 80s and 90s.”

            Evidence of lifestyle, which points to the question of the gay steambaths on/touching Vatican property. The RCC did a pretty good job at keeping a tight lid on it back then. Now, the drugs are so much better, no one would even notice. There was a good 20/20 report on the crisis back in the day.

            MN:“It sure seems like you and Jon love trying to tear down the Roman Catholic Church.”

            That is merely a pity party following your initial acts of displaying your RCC arrogance, and when the natural result happens and you get your head handed back to you, you cry.

            MN:“Every church, denomination and religion has its share of sinners.”

            Yes, some allow their problems to fester and become lodged in the very structure of the church. One example is for the RCC to take the recommendations explicitly so stated of the Apostle Paul as a requirement. Even Paul acknowledged some couldn’t handle it. Yet, we clearly see what the RCC does, and we certainly have the results….man/boy love (eros), etc. Satan has had a hayday with this.

    2. According to Jinx, we need to accept pedophiles, marriage between species, multiple partner marriages and everyone else who has a new idea and feels discriminated against.

      To counter her insanity I suggest that older people understand equality and fairness better. The institutions which have stood the test of time and logic should be respected and understood before moving on with any change. To that end, the eradication of racial discrimination was correct. However, marriage “equality” is misguided and wrong. There are countless other examples.

  4. Jinx II

    Now the close minded christian shariah cult members are putting words in my mouth, again. You wonder why I mock you, refuse to take your bait and engage in pointless argument with you. Myself and others do not take you seriously, even though you pridefully take yourself so seriously. You and your buddies are a joke and I enjoy a good laugh at your expense……….and so do others.

    1. Matt 5:04 Modernism looses again.

      Actually, people leaving the church of any kind is modernism winning.

      I grew up in a Swedish evangelical community. I remember as a High School boy going to hear a pretty Swedish high school girl who was an exchange student talking at a banquet. I was stunned when she said, “Most people in Sweden, including my family, do not go to church.” The exodus from religion must have started long ago.

      1. John 5:37 pm: I understand your desire to create a world devoid of religion. But in the context of orthodoxy vs modernism in Christianity, my comment about the Church of Sweden stands.

        As far as the Church of Sweden goes, you would identify closely with its brand of so-called Christianity. From what I read, Jesus Christ was ushered out the door of their church long ago. What’s left seems like pagan rituals and possibly some charitable works.

        It is impossible to say how the Christian Church will evolve in Europe or anywhere else, for that matter. There are pockets of orthodoxy around the globe. There is always reason for hope.

    1. Please explain from what you know of the case with the current complaintant what it is that Fr. Oelrich has done. What I read in the link you provided was that the two had sex multiple times. That alone violates his priestly vows of celibacy but I am wondering what action led to the criminal complaint. I doubt you know but I thought I would give you the chance to explain yourself.

      As for nothing little changing, I agree. The Church continues to do wonderful work and continues to have priests who sin. Some sin big as it appears Fr. Oelrich did. Some sin small as in venial sins.

      Do you ever sin? Have you committed a mortal sin?

      1. Jinx II

        You, who cite white supremisist Breitbarch news as evidence are asking me for more proof and explanation? How amusing. You always grovel for some lame excuse for the rcc, no matter what they do. The woman was vulnerable ie: suicidal, thus hands off. Sin? Its pretty lame to blame and say the devil made me do it instead of owning up to your choice and the consequences of your behavior.

        I grew up as an Irish catholic, I know the definitions and meanings of their words, I was a very innocent 10 year old when I was molested by our parish priest and that is when the church lost me forever. Sin is just an easy excuse to use instead of getting to the bottom of your own behavior… is with in you and not some ethereal demon.

    2. How outraged are you by the never-ending stream of public school teacher sexual assaults against minor children? Most of the press has been about women teachers and high school boys.

      Then explain your outrage over Hollywood brass and the casting couches.

      Then explain your outrage over Congressional infidelities with staff and constituents.

      Then explain your outrage over professional athletes and their seemingly endless affairs, offspring and lack of responsibility for same.

      Then explain your outrage over the 40 condoms supplied each Olympic athlete at the 2018 Winter Olympics. The sex is expected, is rampant and I haven’t heard a pin drop about it on this board. You’d think it wasn’t happening.

      1. Jinx II

        All sexual abuse outrages me and I still advocate for victims, legally, personally, publicly and politically. I also have nothing but contempt for the entertainment and Hollywood industry. I have nothing to explain because I detest predators actions towards the vulnerable. Condoms are for prevention of STD’s and pregnancy and I advocate for there use, especially in this day and age.

        You have a real hang up about sex. Guess what, what other people do is none of your business or the rcc’s business. Rant away worm, I slam to door of this topic on your prying, misogynist worm body. You are simply to ridiculous to take seriously on just about everything.

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