When You Are Dead, Just Say No

The traditional Christian faith continues to get itself in a metaphorical box when it claims there is life after death. Since not one person can claim to know the experience, the door is open to every kind of phony arguments. The phoniest one starts with the Christian theory there is actually life when we are dead as stones.

The Mormons took the orthodox Christian concept of life after death and expanded on it. They decided that if there were all these non Mormon souls floating around, they would save them from hell by converting them to their own version of Christianity. They held ceremonies baptizing dead people.

The link points out Mormons do not believe they are forcefully converting people against their will. The dead can decide for themselves:

Each individual (has)…the right to choose the validity of a baptism for the dead. It depends on the deceased person accepting it and choosing to accept the Savior while residing in the spiritual world. 

Thus, dead people are considered fair game for Mormons (though officially the Mormon Church no longer sanctions the practice). Why could not the dead be converted to Islam or Hinduism. So far as I know nothing in the Bible says the afterlife is off limits for recruitment by religions.

When the ancients wrote in the Bible about heaven and hell they thought they had invented a foolproof carrot and stick concept that only they could manage. Little did they know modern religions like Mormonism could steal their cake.

21 Responses

  1. Jinx II

    My husband’s maternal family are mormons, his paternal family was catholic both despised their birth religions and raised their children as atheists. They are some of the kindest, help your fellow man and equality for all people I have ever known. Tales of their ancestors mormon practices are quite amusing: mormon underwear, alien abductions….from members of the planet you will rule over when you die…..they have to do periodic testing to make sure you did not pollute your body with alcohol, tobacco, coffee, cola and whatever else they decided to ban!! Discussing each others abductions around the dinner table was a common practice. My mom in laws family tried to marry her off at age 14 to a 68 yr old man……she would have none of that crap and left the cult when she got older. Their claim of converting and baptizing the dead certainly created a ruckus and I have no idea if they still do it.

      1. Jinx II

        Definitely so, they trace back to the fundamentalist mormons who left Utah when polygamy was banned as a condition to statehood. They came to Canada and her family dropped polygamy but others did not. My father in law was molested by his parish priest. They both had enough of religion by the time they entered adulthood.

      2. Just as phony as conversions of rotting skeletons are the more common “death bed conversions” practiced by conventional brands of Christianity. I wrote here before about a conversation I had with an ecumenical hospital chaplain. She said she had to keep an eye out for certain hospital personnel who would target approaching deaths of those who they thought needed to be “saved” and extract what they claimed were conversions. They would then brag to the families who celebrated told the story forever after. Probably there often were non believing relatives that had to hear this over and over again.

        I’m always a bit amused when believers here post “atheists have no standards, they can make up their own moral standards to suit their selfish impulses.” Death bed conversions and Mormon dead conversions are selfish power plays. They give those who practice it a sense of power over others that must be very enjoyable.

    1. Juan Ruiz

      Joseph Smith is part of a long parade of con men, which goes from Saul of Tarsus to David Koresh, and includes Mohammad, Elijah Poole, Bill Wilson, and bagwans, maharishis, and televangelists. All knew that if you were a lazy SOB but wanted to be rich, you invented a cult and proclaimed yourself the unique omniscent prophet of the god you invented.

  2. Catcher

    It is my understanding Ancestry.com is the property and activity of the Mormon church. It is also my understanding the lists of names provided by subscribers are also available for celestial baptisms. I suspect this is the true purpose of Ancestry.com. Their claim of “Only if they accept baptism after death” does not pass the smell test. I believe it is a CYA after being caught doing it.

        1. Jinx II

          That’s ok with me. There is a website called Family Search that is openly run by the mormons and anyone baptized a mormon has free access to all databases. The public also has free access but not to all databases. I have found Family Search to be helpful since they are so focused on genealogy. With information I got from FS, I was able to verify it through public records. I do think there is some confusion between Ancestry and FS, but suspicion is a always good.

          1. Catcher

            25 yr. ago, my parents went to Norway to see her family. There were 41 1st cousins present when they arrived. Long story short, An ancient family line documentable to 1180, from baptismal records. and non documentable another 300 years earlier. Over there, they think clan. The clan town where her family came was the same clan town as kings Harold 1 and 2. While not necessarily direct descendants of Harold, still related to, and of the same clan. No great thing as far as royalty, as the first kings were little more than war lords. She also had first cousins in the parliament, owned factories, farms, and food processing. They stayed there about a month. When she brought back the family tree. A large circular document about three feet square. No need to bow. Go in peace.

          2. Catcher 4:42 re: Same clan as Kings Harold 1 and 2.

            I think that deserves a bow–close enough. My dad had two middle names, Ruben Bernadotte. The latter was apparently after the king. Though I knew my grandparents, I never asked directly either them or my dad why the name.

            My closest relative which might be called “royalty” was Elvis Presley. A second cousin of mine was in the military in the South and married a woman whose maiden name was Presley. She was a cousin or two away from him. I’m still disappointed I never got a dime. 🙂

          3. Jinx II

            That is a very cool finding and something to be proud of!! I have found some interesting stuff as well. I am mostly Irish, with some Swedish, Norwegian, and now I know I am part Bavarian with sprinkles of Jewish and Native American from my beloved maternal Grandmother. My Mom’s family was thrilled to learn this.

            From my Dad’s side of the family I have 86 1st cousins, our reunions are massive in number of attendees.

          4. Catcher

            Just a amplification to clan and clan community. Several years ago I was at the Scandinavian fest at Troll wood. There was a troupe from Norway dancing traditional dances, attended by a violin player and an accordion player. When they finished, I walked down, and complimented the accordion player. I asked where he was from, and he said the name of our clan town. I said that’s the same town where my grandparents came from. He asked my mother’s maiden name. I told him, and he said that was his mother’s too. He asked if I knew anyone over there, and I told him my mother had an uncle visit from there and he owned a furniture factory. Turns out his mother and my mother were 1st cousins. Him and I would be 2nd cousins. He asked if I played the accordion, and I said yes. He said; “it’s genetic”. Evidently there are several accordion players in the family. By the way, one of my mother’s first cousins was the bishop of the state church. While I don’t agree with state churches, it was what it was. The leading state TV news caster was my mother’s 1st cousin too. The equivalent to Ted Koppel at the time.
            All that and a nickel will buy me a five cent cup of coffee.

          5. Catcher 10:16 Great story about our small world. Years ago my parents were walking through a cemetery in rural Sweden looking for my dad’s grandfather’s grave. A man came out on the porch of a house next to the cemetery and shouted in Swedish, “Who are you looking for.” Of course, the man was a relative.

          6. Catcher

            Jon; It is interesting to note that until 4 generations ago now, thanks to that family tree, the last name (sur name) was not standardized. If your father’s first name was Erik, your last name would be Erikson, and if your first name was Lars, your son’s last name would be Larson, if a daughter it would have been Eriksdahter, or larsdahter. So went the names in the family tree. About every three generations, the same names would pop up. The ensuing last name, after the change quite often was taken from a landmark of the clan location, With immigration. You still had a connection to clan. Example; Skifstrom, meaning fast water, rapids. place.

          7. Catcher 10:40 “The ensuing last name…”

            My grandfather’s father was named Peter Johnson. So, his sons were Petersons in Sweden. As two brothers came to our community in central Iowa they found two separate families of Petersons. So they thought it best to pick another name. They chose Lindgren. There were two brothers in our community who could not agree on a last name to one was a Pearson and other a Nyren.

  3. Jinx II

    My maternal Grandmother was adopted and we knew nothing of where she came from. I submitted a spit test to Ancestry and while it was very helpful in identifying my origins and even 1 side of her family, it wasn’t complete. the 3 sides of my family were known back to Ireland, Sweden, Norway and England. Ancestry only tests the Allele pairs. My Chemical Engineer Daughter found me a great place, very science based, to test my mitochondrial DNA…..my direct maternal line going back to a modern human woman in East Africa 120.000 years ago. It confirmed both Native American DNA and Jewish ancestry along with more Irish and Bavarian genes we never knew we had. I now have contact with the Bavarian side of the family and have found a friendship with one of my lost cousins.

    Ancestry is quite useful if used the right way and they have a huge databases that can be very detailed……we now have our Bavarian family back to the 1600’s.

    1. Juan Ruiz

      My brother and sister took the spit test. The maternal side was known back to the 16th century. The paternal side was in doubt. Ancestry put my sister in Eastern Europe and my brother in England.

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