That God Gave The Area Called Israel To The Jews Is A Hard Sell

The Jewish people do not deserve the treatment they have received from Christians, Pagans and others over the time Judaism has been in existence. All religions are just in the current parade history and will one day be gone.

Today, support for the existence of a Jewish dominated Israel is falling out of favor among younger generations. The link defends current Jewish Israel by telling us young people need to learn of its God-sponsored origin. That seems like asking younger generations to take something that is a myth so far as we know and treat it as actual history.

My impression is the Christian support for Israel originates from the home offices of Christian denominations. If there were no denominations I doubt there would be as much Christian support.

Support that comes out of the U.S. is also generated by political areas with older Jewish voters. The question now is whether U.S. support by Jewish people will extent into future generations.

When we see how unsuccessful democracy has been in the Middle Eastern countries we invaded it is a lesson in how hard it will be to maintain in Israel.

Countering the claims of Jews that Israel was given to them by God is the claim of Palestinians. They say writing from seventh century BCE puts them there and that they descended from the areas indigenous people .

I think things will remain as they are until demographic change drives Jews and Palestinians to some different relationship.


22 Responses

  1. The Julius Project

    Let Us Go to the House of the Lord
    A Song of Ascents. Of David.

    PSALM 122 I was glad when they said to me,
    “Let us go to the house of the Lord!”
    2 Our feet have been standing
    within your gates, O Jerusalem!
    3 Jerusalem—built as a city
    that is bound firmly together,
    4 to which the tribes go up,
    the tribes of the Lord,
    as was decreed for[a] Israel,
    to give thanks to the name of the Lord.
    5 There thrones for judgment were set,
    the thrones of the house of David.
    6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem!
    “May they be secure who love you!
    7 Peace be within your walls
    and security within your towers!”
    8 For my brothers and companions’ sake
    I will say, “Peace be within you!”
    9 For the sake of the house of the Lord our God,
    I will seek your good.

    Circa 1015 B.C.

  2. unregenerate

    The Appeal to Heaven: An ancient, extremely dangerous fallacy (a deluded argument from ethos) that of claiming to know the mind of God (or History, or a higher power), who has allegedly ordered or anointed, supports or approves of one’s own country, standpoint or actions so no further justification is required and no serious challenge is possible. (E.g., “God ordered me to kill my children,” or “We need to take away your land, since God [or Scripture, or Manifest Destiny, or Fate, or Heaven] has given it to us as our own.”) A private individual who seriously asserts this fallacy risks ending up in a psychiatric ward, but groups or nations who do it are far too often taken seriously. Practiced by those who will not or cannot tell God’s will from their own, this vicious (and blasphemous) fallacy has been the cause of endless bloodshed over history.

    1. Juan Ruiz

      Thanks for the link. That material should be taught at least in high school, if not made mandatory in college.

    2. unregenerate 5:16 Practiced by those who will not or cannot tell God’s will from their own.

      We hear on this page so often God hates abortion, God hates gay marriage and God will give you punishment. Those who say it want it to be God’s view as well. Why not, it’s there for the taking. The beauty of the Bible/faith is that people look there and find justification for most anything.

      On Christian parody site I visit there is a long-standing thread entitled, “You can kill almost anyone and still go to heaven.”

      1. Juan Ruiz

        “I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.”
        == Susan B. Anthony, 1896

      2. Actually, what we hear most on this page so often is your viewpoint of what is right and wrong. Then we hear from you what people of faith can not bring to the public discussion of what is right and wrong.

        In your view, abortion is right because it is the exercise of a woman’s free well. In a person of faith’s view, abortion is wrong because it kills a unique human being … and it is against one of the Ten Commandments (from God).

        In your view, homosexual practice and homosexual marriage is right because it is the exercise of a person’s free will. In a person of faith’s view, both are wrong because of many factors, including which it is against God’s will.

        Unlike some Christian denominations which have no central teaching authority, a Catholic goes to his Church for the answers to what is and isn’t God’s will. The Church uses both Sacred Tradition, the Bible and its teaching authority to instruct the faithful. In your lingo, the Church’s position is “peer-reviewed” and extremely well researched.

        As for Israel, it is impossible to refute the Jewish claim to the land as it is the center of biblical history. Masada is physically present. The Dead Sea is physically present. The River Jordan is physically present. Capernum, Cana, Nazareth, Jerusalem, Jericho, Bethlehem, the Mount of Olives, the Sea of Galilee are all physically present.

          1. Catcher

            @ 9;03′ Ya got yer facts wrong. The excommunication itself was an ecclesial abuse when not willing to discuss the 95 thesis. Recant or else. An admission after the fact does not count. The horse was out of the barn at that time. Demanding retraction without admitting abuse. Boiling a student in oil is ecclesial abuse. History is full of abuse., including burning Huss 100 yr. earlier. When a priest tells a member his sexual advances are agape, and the member accepts it because of his collar is ecclesial abuse. Thinking he will only be transferred if caught, and not prosecuted is ecclesial abuse. Political intrigue is ecclesial abuse. Not enough room to list more.

            On top of that, your sequence of events is bassackward. Once excommunicated, no ecclesial responsibility toward the RCC was warranted. Had the RCC caught him, more ecclesial abuse would have happened, but by that time he was too popular to publically kill him.

            The RCC created the problem in the first place. He made proposals to correct it, as indicated in the thesis, (Items open for discussion), ( as it turns out, just the tip of the iceberg) but the church was unwilling to consider. Blame the messenger. A common practice of yours.

            Had the RCC listened to Luther, and cleaned up their act and ecclesial abuses, there wouldn’t have been so many denominations.

            I had two RCC priests tell me the foment, both political and religious at the time was so high against Rome, if Luther hadn’t done what he did, in time the implosion of Rome would have been more destructive than the Reformations, (plural).

            Luther was not the cause of so many denominations. In fact, his last years were spent more against the radicals than Rome. Again like the little priest jim, you conflate without integrity.

            How do you like the new “Our Father”? With catechesis, you fellars wouldn’t have to make “improvements”.

          2. Catcher

            Re; admission after the fact refers to the attempt to correct the ecclesial abuse regarding charging for indulgences in Trent.

        1. Catcher

          @ 5;23; re. “central teaching authority and sacred tradition. I must also add; Both terms invented, named and claimed by themselves. They are big in authority and tradition. It is so because they say so, also part of “tradition”.

        2. Matt 11:33 In your view, abortion is right because it is the exercise of free will

          Free will is a religious term. You are assigning religious views to me and women. Abortion is a medical procedure. Having the doctor fix a broken arm is not an act of free will, it is a medical procedure.

          it is impossible to refute the Jewish claim … as it is the center of biblical history

          It is historically important and indigenous to other religions and cultures as well.

          1. Matt 9:10 Pray tell, if fixing a broken arm is a healing act, what is healed during an abortion?

            A broken bone will heal without a doctor. The patient hires the doctor’s services so the end result is better. An abortion patient hires a doctor because she wants her life improved just as the person with the broken bone.

          2. Henry

            9:10, very little healing. In the extreme example of saving the woman’s life, the abortion procedure can be used to preserve life much like an amputation (an equally brutal procedure that is not exercised unless absolutely the last resort.). I really do not believe unmerited amputations of limbs are medically necessary and are unethical. Society and the medical profession says ‘no’ to this. Nether are many abortions ethical either.

  3. Juan Ruiz

    Biblical scholars long ago dismissed as legend the one-author Torah; an Egyptian captivity, exodus, and 40-year wandering; and the existence of certain characters. Never mind talking snakes, manna, and an exploding Onan.

  4. MarK Fisher

    Your first paragraph is the weakest condemnation of antisemetism I have ever seen. You use that as permission to root for the death of elderly jews living in other parts of the country that do not agree with your political viewpoint.

    1. Mark 8:27 Thanks for the comment.

      I have to agree that it is a weak condemnation of antisemetism. Maybe I should rework it. The thing is, any religion criticizing another should come to realize theirs will be one day in the dust bin of history like all the others.
      Where am I “rooting for the death of elderly Jews.” Surveys show the faith is not as popular with young people as with the old. You can shoot the messenger but it changes nothing.

      1. Juan Ruiz

        “Surveys show the faith is not as popular with young people as with the old.”

        The last figure I saw places over 50% of Isrealis as admitted atheists.

  5. Troy Kraft

    How do you explain the ongoing fulfillment of biblical prophecy. And especially IN modern times?:

    The persecution of people of Jewish descent throughout history (Matt 27:25). The Roman governor washes his hands of Jesus’ blood while the Jews proclaim, “His blood be on us and on our children!” Fullfillment: throughout world history. The Holocaust.

    The Jewish people will be regathered in unbelief from the four corners of the earth (Isaiah 11:11-12). Fulfillment: 20th and 21st centuries and continuing. People of Jewish descent continue to immigrate back to the State of Israel. The Jewish State of Israel persists and thrives in the face of overwhelming opposition (Egypt, Syria, Iran, Jordan, and Turkey).

    The state of Israel will be re-established (Isaiah 66:7-8 & Ezekiel 37:21-22). Fulfillment: May 14, 1948. On this one day – the British Mandate over Palestine expired, and the Jewish People’s Council gathered at the Tel Aviv Museum to declare the establishment of the State of Israel. The new state was recognized that night by the United States and three days later by the USSR.

    The Jews will once again re-occupy the city of Jerusalem (Zechariah 8:4-8), Fulfillment: June 7, 1967. Israeli Defense Forces entered and liberated Jerusalem’s Old City and the Western Wall on June 7th, 1967. December 6th 2017 United States government recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. U.S. begins preparation to move U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem

    The land of Israel will be reclaimed from its desolation, becoming once again a land of agricultural abundance (Ezekiel 36:34-35). Fulfillment: 2017 – Israel is the 37th largest export economy in the world. In 2016 the GDP of Israel was $318B and its GDP per capita was $37.9k. The top exports of Israel are Diamonds ($15.6B), Packaged Medicaments ($3.86B), Integrated Circuits ($3.39B), Unpackaged Medicaments ($2.5B) and Telephones ($1.55B),

    All the nations of the world will come together against Israel over the issue of the control of Jerusalem (Zechariah 12:1-3). Fulfillment: As Jon noted above, fewer and fewer people support for Israel. Israel’s popularity continues to decline, all countries of the world will turn against Israel, and this biblical prophecy will also be fulfilled.

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