When The Bible Is Used To Justify War, Look Out

Rev. Robert Jeffress of First Baptist Church of Dallas, adviser to the President, said this week Trump has the Bible’s support to kill North Korea’s President Kim Jong-un. This is especially dangerous with a President who knows wars can reelect sitting Presidents.

Rev. Jeffress quoted from Romans 13, “For he is the Servant of God: An avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrong doer.”

Since I am not an expert on the Bible, I have trouble understanding how President Kim can automatically be named the “wrong doer”. We don’t admire him but could not also President Trump be thought of as the “wrong doer”? He has cheated on two or three wives and told many lies before and after being President. Maybe “wrong doer” is clearly defined and Jeffress has not shared it with us.

The religious justification for attacking North Korea is not a chilling as the secular justification. In the Jeffress article the “strategic” justification is spelled out. It is that a North Korea weapon could reach Guam and potentially the edge of the U. S.

I don’t know about the technical issues of this, what the weapons are or what danger they carry, but I’m skeptical. The exact same reasoning was used to justify invading the sovereign country of Iraq. Then we learned from President Bush himself there were no “weapons of mass destruction.” There was never was a threat of another country invading and occupying the U.S.

With both God and fuzzy justification, it looks like war ahead.

 

23 Responses

  1. entech

    Then we learned from President Bush himself there were no “weapons of mass destruction.”
    With Henry back inform we can expect another diatribe about how wrong you are about that and how they actually found half a bucket left over from years before and past its use by date.

    With people like Augustine wrote long and in depth on what became known as Just War Theory, Trump and his acolytes have theory of profitable mercantile war theory, known as the Just Me Theory.

    1. entech 9:01 we can expect another diatribe about how wrong you are about that and how they actually found half a bucket left over from years before and past its use by date.

      Yes, we will “learn” the weapons were smuggled out of the country and are now being used in Syria, or, other conspiracy theories. It would be nice if they would tell former President Bush all this because he still maintains no weapons of mass destruction were found.

      1. entech

        I am not envious of you being the blogger, you are obliged to respond which is actually encouraging and enabling him. I try my best, benign indifference is the best (only?) approach, but so often it is like an insect bite, you know it is futile but you succumb to scratching.

      2. Henry

        Jon:“Yes, we will “learn” the weapons were…..”

        There we again get the two parrots repeating the news from the old fake news flunkies. Even NDSU acknowledges WMDs in Iraq.

        How’s that Russia investigation going? Any evidence yet? Let’s see…..which well known American politician received millions from Russia? Clue: It ain’t Trump. This is so well documented that this person should be indicted right now. That is what you call Russia influencing American elections.

        1. Henry 11:47 Even NDSU acknowledges WMDs in Iraq.

          I am certain the corporate institution called North Dakota State University has never said there were WMD’s in Iraq. I’d suggest you track down the source of this fake news and pass it along to us. Then, you need to pass it along to President Bush who still does not believe anything approaching mass destruction was found.

          1. Henry

            Jon:“I am certain….”

            Just google weapons of mass destruction, NDSU, and you will readily see that NDSU works with those suffering the effects of WMDs.

            I read the one somewhat incomprehensible Bush interview where he said there were no WMDs, which conflicted with what he and his staff (and also Hillary and Algore) previously said on many occasions. It appeared to me he thought the media was his friend, and if he treated them nicely and give them what they wanted, they would like him. I think they liked the results, but I still do not think they like him. He was a good natured fellow. I like him.

          2. Henry 10:28 Just google weapons of mass destruction, NDSU, and you will readily see that NDSU works with those suffering the effects of WMDs.

            Now you have started another version of “Henry’s Comedy Hour.” Googling weapons of mass destruction yields no statement that “NDSU” agrees there were WMD’s in Iraq.
            As to President Bush, you have to be kidding to say his staff of advisers disagreed with him. Nutty Dick Chaney perhaps, but not his intelligence advisers. No one had more to gain than Bush in verification of WMD’s and more to lose by admitting they were not there.

          3. entech

            Just been googling around, from the comments on a late night comedy show I saw, “You know G W Bush turns on the TV, flips to the news, and smiles softly to himself, secure in the knowledge that he won’t be remembered as America’s worst President ever.”

            It must be difficult for the comedy shows, real life at the moment is hilarious, from a distance with the Henry and the Donald we don’t need to think about alternative facts we have an entire alternative reality.

          4. Henry

            entech:“…from the comments on a late night comedy show I saw….”

            There we get the source of information for the left. As a result, we now know that there were no WMDs.

            Thank you.

          5. entech

            Henry, the late night show was Fox News, anything coming from Rupert is comedic – matched only by anything from your good self.

            Goodnight time where I am at the moment.

          6. Henry

            Jon“Googling weapons of mass destruction yields…..”

            It is not a hard search to see that NDSU acknowledges WMDs. That one cannot find this acknowledgement only leaves a couple of possibilities, neither of them favorable to the professed incapable. The worse news is that this acknowledgement is archived. The leftist revisionists will be frustrated.

          7. Henry 12:49 Several others, like Matt, have played this “guess what I’m thinking” here–referring to something but not telling us what is being referred to. It is not helpful to the readership who might want to learn something. Please either tell us what you are referring to or stop referring to it.

          8. Jinx II

            Really now, heinie. We know we can’t take you seriously, jeez, you just got out of the institution and we would hate to see you back in there again.

  2. entech

    It is not any great surprise that Trump’s personal pastor should use Romans 13. Here is first part from the Easy-to-Read Version (ERV).
    All of you must obey the government rulers. Everyone who rules was given the power to rule by God. And all those who rule now were given that power by God. So anyone who is against the government is really against something God has commanded. Those who are against the government bring punishment on themselves. People who do right don’t have to fear the rulers. But those who do wrong must fear them. Do you want to be free from fearing them? Then do only what is right, and they will praise you.
    Rulers are God’s servants to help you. But if you do wrong, you have reason to be afraid. They have the power to punish, and they will use it. They are God’s servants to punish those who do wrong. So you must obey the government, not just because you might be punished, but because you know it is the right thing to do.
    And this is why you pay taxes too. Those rulers are working for God, and they give all their time to the work of ruling. Give everyone what you owe them. If you owe them any kind of tax, then pay it. Show respect to those you should respect. And show honor to those you should honor.

    They have the power to punish, and they will use it. And they are constantly reminding us, even Venezuela gets the message.

    I do think there is more cause for alarm than there was in the middle of the Cold War.

    1. Entech 10:53 All of you must obey the government rulers. Everyone who rules was given the power to rule by God. And all those who rule now were given that power by God. So anyone who is against the government is really against something God has commanded. Those who are against the government bring punishment on themselves.

      Romans 13 gives us an answer to this question: Why do non believers think the Bible was not written by God but was written by those in charge at the time for their own interests?

      1. entech

        As strong an indication as needed to demonstrate the possibility that what you always say is “probably true”, a control mechanism.

        Of course you could, if you really wanted to be a true believer, say it was fair warning. Believers can explain everything.

    2. Juan Ruiz

      “All of you must obey the government rulers. Everyone who rules was given the power to rule by God. And all those who rule now were given that power by God. So anyone who is against the government is really against something God has commanded.”

      Far be it from me to defend Saul of Tarsus, but some historical context is necessary. Nero was emperor of Rome at the time, and the number of Christians was extremely small. (we’re talking mid-50s CE here). This really seems to reflect a good deal of pragmatism here; you ain’t goin’ anywhere by challenging the Empire.

      Treating Rome with kid gloves was a strategy throughout the Gospel writers also. It explains how a Galilean peasant revolutionary, executed by Rome for sedition, somehow became a victim of the Jews.

      1. entech

        Interesting combination of traits we see here, Which is the action that has the most priority, the one most likely to get you are place at the front of the gates to “the Kingdom”which was still thought to be immanent at that time:
        render unto Caesar or hold on to your faith and be a martyr.

      2. Juan 8:59 Treating Rome with kid gloves was a strategy throughout the Gospel writers also. It explains how a Galilean peasant revolutionary, executed by Rome for sedition, somehow became a victim of the Jews.

        Wonderful summary. As has been said here over and over, the Bible was written by a group of wealthy people over a long period of time to audiences of those times and to promote the interests of the writers themselves.

        Bart Ehrman has spent a lot of time researching what is known about killing of political figures which annoyed the Romans. He concluded it unlikely, if not impossible, all those meetings, speeches and impassioned statements in the Jesus death stories ever happened. It’s most likely that the writers made up the stories to cast Pontius Pilate in a favorable light and the Jews in a bad light. It worked so well the Jews are hammered on to this day.

        1. Juan Ruiz

          “It worked so well the Jews are hammered on to this day.”

          It worked well because the listening and reading audience knew nothing about pre-rabbinical Judaism…my bet is neither did the writers. This ignorance allowed a completely erroneous characterization, including the Pharisee/Sadducee conspiracy, the Messiah was divine, the Sanhedrin was a star chamber, Pilate was a flunky for the high priest, and crucified corpses were taken down and buried.

          1. Juan 10:24 It worked well because the listening and reading audience knew nothing about pre-rabbinical Judaism…my bet is neither did the writers. This ignorance allowed a completely erroneous characterization, including the Pharisee/Sadducee conspiracy,

            Since we don’t know who the writers were we can’t know how much they knew. We can be certain nearly all who listened to what was written were illiterate.

          2. Juan Ruiz

            “Since we don’t know who the writers were we can’t know how much they knew. ”

            No. But we know who they weren’t. They weren’t from the Galilee or Judea. They weren’t eyewitness or companions of eyewitnesses. They wrote in Greek for a Greek audience. The Matthew author, who quotes the Hebrew Scriptures the most, uses the Septuagint as his source, as he makes the same translation from Hebrew it makes. The John author makes heavy use of Hellenic ideas, including the Logos.

  3. Juan Ruiz

    Sometimes great irony results from the religious justification for military action. Witness Alfonso de Valdés’ justification of the Sack of Rome (1527) by Emperor Charles V: “Diálogo de las cosas ocurridas en Roma.”

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