Original Sin Made Augustine Famous

The original sin is one of the peculiar things Christians believe. How could they believe babies are sinful?

Augustine wrote in the 300’s. There were competing writers of the time who thought he was wrong. The sin of sex was made BIG by Augustine and may never have made it into the category of big sins had it not been for him. And, it was his own personal obsession with sex that made him generalize about all sin.

When he was a teenager, he was in a bath with his father when he had a spontaneous erection. He seemed to have pondered this experience for the rest of his life. He had sex with several women and fathered a child while not married.

My take is that sex was so pleasurable to him he concluded it must be sinful. And, since his bath experience happened with no conscious  effort on his part it must be that sin is in humans from birth. The first thing we have is sin.

Another explanation for the pleasure of sex is that humans need to reproduce. Those who found pleasure from sex reproduced, those who did not died out. It had nothing to do with religion.

But, there is no fame and fortune to be gained with such a simple explanation. Augustine became famous because he named a sin and judged others. Giving power of some over others is good for one’s career. It’s especially helpful if the ones you give power to are wealthy.

25 Responses

  1. Jinx II

    I can’t remember, but is this Augustine the one who followed Aristotelian (sp) logic?

    I do recall his link to sex as a sin……from way back in my life. Thanks Jon.

      1. If the original sin was really a big deal, you would think those who put words in Jesus’ mouth would have had Jesus railing about it. Apparently, they did not think it was important enough to have Jesus say much of anything about it. From a Christian site:

        In sum, Jesus speaks several times about the reality and consequences of sin, but he does not seem to support the doctrine of Original Sin as it developed in the Early Church and the Reformation.
        Read more at http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/tonyjones/2009/02/original-sin-jesus-ambivalence.html#b1t88csUhp4S25mm.99

        1. Never a day goes by when you don’t insult Christians in the name of so called “free thinking” and atheism. There is another, more accurate name for your activity.

          1. Matt 9:49 Never a day goes by when you don’t insult Christians in the name of so called “free thinking” and atheism.

            I noticed when you are unable to argue with what I write because it is true, you go to the “shoot the messenger” strategy.

          2. Jinx II

            Hmmmmmm……the definition of stupid is repeating the same action (reading Jon’s blog) over and over again and get the same result (be offended again) from the constitutionally protected free speech. The obvious answer as to why does he continue on is, the worm is a masochist and enjoys every nanosecond of his chosen torture.

            Your lucky Jon hasn’t banned you like the soccer Association did!

          3. entech

            Jinx, Stupidity is saying Jon is insulting by quoting from a site that has as its about page
            As the leading lifestyle site dedicated to faith and inspiration, Beliefnet helps people find and walk a spiritual path that instills comfort, hope, strength and happiness. It is through this discovery that our readers are empowered to live a more meaningful life.
            Beliefnet inspires your everyday.

            Makes you think that in Matts enclosed world, in his tiny mind, anyone not an extremely conservative Catholic is no better than an atheist, probably includes the current Pope.

          4. entech

            Jinx, your 11:15, I was saying that Matt was defining stupidity when he responded to the citing from “beliefnet”. Of course I could be wrong about that, It could have just been a random outpouring from Matt with no relevance to his hatred of and bigotry towards people that don’t agree with him.

          5. Jinx II

            Ok Entech, I wasn’t sure if that was the right interpretation but I wanted to make sure I unintentionally did insult Jon. That’s what I get from reading and posting when I am dead tired and should be in bed!!!

    1. entech

      Yep, hung like a hippo, chastity and continence when I get too old for anything else. Great thoughts from a great moral teacher.

    2. Rob 8:11 and, that’s how he got his infamous nickname, “Boneman.”

      Whoa! Wait a minute here! This man reached sainthood. Impregnating a girlfriend does not disqualify sainthood. The link spoke of a possible erotic relationship with his mother. If I agree with your nickname for Augustine I will be accused by Matt of further criticism of the faith. So, I refuse to say anything.

      1. Great summary I found this morning of the debates between Augustine and the more rational Pelagius, both around the years of 300. Augustine won the argument. His focus on sex and sin gave more power of judgment which the important people of that period wanted.

        1. I got to wondering this. If Pelaguis had been the one the faith latched onto, would he have become a saint?

          I don’t see how he could have made sainthood. He did put the unseen spirits and ghosts of the faith in the driver’s seat. He did not project the control over people the church needs to prosper.

          1. entech

            There were very many opinions and propagandists for different interpretations in those days. There was as much writing of books/treatise with titles beginning with Against …. Heresies” in fact when there emerged one winner the rest of the writings were destroyed, burned at the stake so to speak, a good definition of irony is how the main source of knowledge about the heresies are the books condemning them.

            Flip a coin heads/tails just the same as orthodoxy/heresy.

  2. Jon,

    Interesting what you find behind the curtains with a little investigation !!!

    Good Post !!

    Now I will add a little support:

    The 7 deadly sins are man made to rule over people, make them afraid of everything, and then get them to buy forgiveness from salacious satan, for every religion hinders the one on ONE face to FACE relationship between a child and GOD, just like salacious satan FIRST did to Eve and Adam in the Garden.

    We are all GOD’S children after all.

    JESUS didn’t talk much about these, for HE needed only talk about them relative to the ONE & ONLY SIN that sends a child to hell, and that is not knowing GOD in HIS SEVEN SPIRTS from the BEGINNING to the END !!!!!!!

    Just an attempt to appease Catcher, Matthew 12.31 “Therefore I TELL you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against THE SPIRIT will not be forgiven !!!!!!!” The WORDS of the CHRIST, GOD IN THE FLESH in their midst: GOD’S SOUL is the HOLY SPIRIT, SO JESUS’ SOUL was the HOLY SPIRIT !!!!!!!

    May all have a weekend as though they were in the Garden without the evil of salacious satan and his three evil servants of judaism-christianity-islam !!!!

    kev

    1. Grandma

      Kev actually said: JESUS didn’t talk much about these, for HE needed only talk about them relative to the ONE & ONLY SIN that sends a child to hell, and that is not knowing GOD

      So…… Then the Navajo and Hindu and Buddhist children who were born, and died, before they were pestered by Christian missionaries are going to hell?

      1. Grandma,

        The Navajo and others, the little I understand, worshipped THE GREAT SPIRIT, so I have for some time thought the North American Indians to be much closer to GOD than any religion that I have studied.

        The others you mention clearly worship other gods, so it is what it is.

        I believe THE GREAT SPIRIT does not judge, but on Judgment Day we will either know HIM and run to HIM or we will fear what we are face to FACE with and will run like hell into hell.

        It’s is up to each of us, one on ONE with THE GREAT SPIRIT to connect with THE GREAT SPIRIT in ALL 7 OF HIS SPIRITS !!!!!!!

        Also, I believe that the COSMOS cycles on an entropy wave looping over and over in time. This allows THE GREAT SPIRIT to recycle all those souls that didn’t make it HOME to be with THE GREAT SPIRIT in the previous cycle. This gives THE GREAT SPIRIT PERFECT ULTIMATE GRACE & MERCY !!!!!!!

        kev

        1. Grandma

          Kev: The Navajo and others, the little I understand, worshipped THE GREAT SPIRIT,

          Yes, you understand little. I think we can agree on that. The idea of a “great spirit” originated on the east coast of the US when European settlers just couldn’t get a handle on the polytheism of the natives and kept asking they who their god was.

  3. Jon,

    Here is something you can look into if you wish.

    The Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of GOOD & evil was more likely the Smyrna Fig than an apple, and the Fruit of the TREE OF LIFE is likely the Caprifig.

    Just a little mixing of science and the WORD OF GOD !

    I will leave the explanation up to each and every one who chooses to research it.

    As a professor of mine once said, “I have given you all the answers, not you need to figure out the right questions !!!!”

    kev

    1. entech

      I have read in a few places that the fig was a good candidate and the pomegranate another. What I would really like though is not what fruit the deadly talking serpent tempted Eve with, but some reason to believe there is any validity in the story.

      The right questions to ask would be a good start for any enquiry, starting with “Is there any reason to take Genesis as a serious history, true in every detail” if the answer is no the next question must be “How do we know which parts are true and which can be discarded”. Genesis does present several alternative facts.

      1. Juan Ruiz

        “but some reason to believe there is any validity in the story.”

        For early commentators, the validity was in the moral of the story. They just couldn’t agree what the moral was.

        Tertullian saw it as an admonition to women. “Do you not know that everyone of you is an Eve?”

        Jerome believed that Adam and Eve were meant to be virgins, and that the Fall opened to door to sex.

        Gnostic Christians saw the whole story as an allegory which the individual was meant to decipher.

    2. kev–With your interest in both science and literalism you could explain to us the talking snake in Genesis. Was the snake that could talk from a long line of talking snakes that later died out, or, was it a one of a kind?

      1. Juan Ruiz

        Only Christianity associates the serpent with Satan. In Judaism it’s just a talking animal. Also, the text does not call it a snake. Notice its punishment was to crawl on the ground, which means it had legs before. But the natural world was different to the ancient writers: a bat was a bird, and rabbiits chewed a cud.

Leave a Reply