Religious Liberty Is A Zero Sum Game

Even with so called great legal minds working on it, there so far has been no success finding a way to practice “religious liberty” without discrimination. Giving more religious rights to one group takes away rights from another. If someone owns an apartment building but has a religious hang up about homosexuality, refusing to rent to two men or two women takes away rights.

Anti abortion religious views have the same problem. By outlawing abortions, one cell has been given rights while some rights of the woman have been taken away. Like all the other prohibitions based on religious views, this is a zero sum game.

Those who claim religious views should always have the upper hand in these conflicts claim they take away only unimportant options. It is not important individuals of the same sex be discriminated against in housing, they say. People attracted to others of the same sex need only recognize its sinfulness and repent. Then they will live their lives with partners of the other sex.

To avoid unwanted pregnancies, women need only to refuse sex with men who want it.  This is not an important sacrifice. Killing the fertilized cell is murder which is far more important.

The problem with using religion to justify rights is like turning on a water facet. A facet that works properly can be adjusted to flow harmlessly. One that is broken floods the house.

It is easy to see the facet is already broken by efforts to take rights away from women and gay people.

24 Responses

  1. entech

    Certainly true Jon, who is who, who is right, who has the greatest claim to truth is an argument that has many facets. 🙂

    But seriously, every group claims the perfect truth for themselves, as they are the sole possessors and propagators of truth and the knowledge of the one true god and his requirements no one else has any valid claim to any rights. All rights reside in those who are right and all others are wrong. ???

  2. Matt Noah

    Abolishing slavery was not a zero sum game, your words. Everyone won.

    Abolishing abortion will be the same.

    1. Juan Ruiz

      “Abolishing abortion will be the same.”

      I can think of no scenario where that would ever happen. The cat has been out of the bag too long. Eliminating Social Security would more likely occur.

      1. Matt Noah

        That’s OK, many people could not think of a scenario where Trump won and Neil Gorsuch was sitting on the Supreme Court before the age of 50. Roe v. Wade is on the precipice.

    2. Matt 6:21 Abolishing slavery was not a zero sum game, your words. Everyone won.

      It’s ironic you would see slavery in that way. I saw an article recently saying a law prohibiting abortion would put pregnant women into a form of servitude. Thus, when women have abortion rights “everyone” wins, your words.

      1. Matt Noah

        Because you “… saw an article …” is hardly some sort of declaration of fact. The pill and the condom put women in to sexual servitude. The criminalization of abortion will help them escape.

        Don’t pretend to quote or paraphrase me when you are clueless.

        1. Jinx II

          No pill and no condom put women in a perpetual state of pregnancy, worm…….and my understanding is the church now teaches its a sin for a wife to say no to her husband. Its a lose-lose game for women and win-win game for men.

  3. Catcher

    A little off topic I know.
    If you want to see how “Prosperity theology” works, see today’s Forum article about a spot on the Mississippi River, what happened, how, and the values of the property, before and after. “Mortified”, my ass. Caught would be the mortifying element. “Don’t blame me, it was the logger”. Or was it the butler.

    1. Juan Ruiz

      The prosperity is for all the Elmer Gantrys around who see the connection between wealth and religion: Osteen, Dollar, Hagee, Van Impe…

    2. Cather 8:24 “Logger inadvertently took down a number of trees.”

      God controls these things. How could that happen? Oh wait, God wanted the pastors to have a good view of the water.

        1. Catcher

          @ 10;50 – – 12;15; Don’t kid (there’s another word) me. The logger was doing exactly what he was told, and the preacher knew very well what he wanted done. No voice out of the blue. The “God told me” does not fly. One of the authorities said it was a criminal act. If it was, grow a pair, and enforce it.
          In the end, he got what he wanted. So smug he is. The new trees will take at least 70 years to get back to normal. In the end, the preacher will be dead.

          1. I’ll say this on behalf of prosperity gospel preachers. They say, “Send me money and you will be better off.” Then, someone, maybe one out of 100 or one out of 1000, sends money and gets job or gets extra money somehow. These are better odds than the gazillion preachers and priests who say, “Pray, give us money and you will be rewarded by a place in heaven.” Not one success story.

  4. Matt Noah

    Nobody lost anything when millions of Christians went to Church to praise and glorify God this past Sunday. If not, please explain to all of us what YOU lost on Sunday while someone was in Church.

      1. Matt Noah

        You remind me of Paul Ehrlich. He was wrong, too.

        But as to the subject at hand, you have no answer.

        Nobody lost anything when millions of people went to Church on Sunday morning. What did you lose, loser?

    1. entech

      What a nonsensical question. Who loses and who gains, is religion some sought of competition?
      That my neighbors go to church on Sunday, has no effect on me, that I don’t has no effect on them, we are still friends and the question never comes up. The only one that could possibly be affected is you “God” without worshippers where would he be?
      As for Godless suggesting your millions will reduce to thousands over time reminds me of Willy Nelson
      “nothing lasts forever, its all a state of mind”.

  5. Matt Noah

    Attending Church services is a religious liberty guaranteed by the US Constitution.

    I think your economics roots are failing you. Or is it simple math that is the problem?

    1. entech

      That attending religious services is a liberty that should be free to all is undoubtable, the problem I see is that so many would like to see it as an obligation.

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