Jesus, Why Didn’t He Do What He Demanded Of Others

Sometimes I think someone should start a blog entitled, “Scripture Not Read in Church.” There are stories of Jesus in the Bible that do not make for pleasant conversation  after church.

An example is in Matthew Chapter 18. The book has beautiful prose that is often read in church and referred to in casual conversation. How often should a person forgive the shortcomings of another? Not just seven times, but seventy times seven, the ancient writers claim Jesus said.

And, there was the story of the one lost sheep. It was more important than the 99 that were never lost.

These myths are nice but ancient writers put other things on the tongue of Jesus. In the same Matthew, Chapter 18, Jesus talks of adults who tempt children away from worshiping him. Would Jesus forgive such adults seven times seventy? No, not even once. Instead he advises such enemies have a stone tied around their necks and drowned.

I wrote recently about the self centered and hungry Jesus who killed a fig tree because it had no figs. Those who comments in that blog offered up various suggestions of metaphor that the story might have suggested. It might have been about a Jesus who killed those who disagreed with him.

I would guess the passage in Matthew Chapter 18 where Jesus advocates killing those who attract children away from him is not read from the pulpit. It doesn’t make for good after service coffee conversation.

33 Responses

  1. Jinx II

    Jon, with your quote below, I wonder what Jesus would say and do about child molesting priests? Their victims often shun the church at some point in life, endure severe emotional trauma and often engage in self destructing behavior that includes drug and alcohol abuse, prostitution and suicide.

    He didn’t strike those priests dead on the spot so maybe there isn’t a god in the first place.

    “These myths are nice but ancient writers put other things on the tongue of Jesus. In the same Matthew, Chapter 18, Jesus talks of adults who tempt children away from worshiping him. Would Jesus forgive such adults seven times seventy? No, not even once. Instead he advises such enemies have a stone tied around their necks and drowned.”

  2. Jinx II

    I am going to have to find the catholic bible my Aunt the nun gave me decades ago and check out Chapter 18, I do remember something about that and how that child will never suffer the wrath of god because of what had been done to them……I would expect that such an act committed by a priest would get his ass tossed into the 9th circle of hell.

  3. Interesting! Atheists see themselves as always being right. They see it as impossible that they are ever wrong. To denigrate others is nobel, they are unable to make a mistake. To them narcissism is a wonderful attribute. I often wonder what goes on in their mind when they know they are near death. Do they ever apologize, have remorse. Is constant conjecture seen as good. Joy must be constant scorn of Christians, lies. Unreasonableness. Do you suppose there are a lot of atheists in Hell! Can you imagine spending most of your time running down people who have different believes. Do they ever find in themselves to appreciate Christians to have give their life for our freedoms, especially freedom of speech. What would they say to a Christianity who saved their life? Is Christianity charities a joke to them? They are really into the pedophile priest thing, yet our general population has significantly more problems with pedophiles with school children. They constantly project themselves as “knowingly it all.” I wonder if they know what dignity means!

    1. entech

      Ervin, welcome back. An analysis of your post might suggest that most of what you call out atheists for using words like denigration, constant scorn and so on actually apply equally well to yourself in regard to atheists. Obviously being an atheist myself I read it as even worse than anything I could say about the potential errors in the Bible and the thinking derived from them.
      Are there any statistics to show that the charitable work done by Christians, charities of which you are justly proud, counterbalances the damage done to children by the paedophile priests, the priests which people like you and Matt appear to defend.

    2. Ervin 11:26 To them narcissism is a wonderful attribute. I often wonder what goes on in their mind when they know they are near death. Do they ever apologize, have remorse.

      Ervin, welcome back. I cannot think of a better example of narcissism than the Christian believing himself so special a god knows his name and because of that he will never have to die. The non believer who sees himself as merely a small part of nature and who will return to nothing but meaningless dust it the opposite of narcissism.

  4. Catcher

    re. Stone; (Mat 18; 1 through 20) “…I would guess….is not read from the pulpit” Not so. It is in the lectionary and read in rotation to the church calendar from the lectern, and preached from the pulpit. This year the date to be read is Sunday, Sept 10th.
    You guess wrong.

  5. entech

    Jon, just spent a little time after lunch and over coffee checking out Mathew 18 1-9, not much commentary relating to the bit you refer to. But I think your interpretation could be wrong. The talk goes on about stumbling blocks in general not just those that would cause a child to stumble. The message from that seems to be that if you drown or chop of a limb or several it is better for you as someone who talks against the message of Jesus. It is more of the eternal benevolence because this is the way to avoid hell – better to drown or live with one eye than go to hell

    <i6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
    7 ¶ Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
    8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
    9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

    There are other things though, if you don’t hate mummy and daddy you don’t love me; turn your back on them all forget them and follow me (is this honour your father and mother). The problem with Bible quoting is that there are as many interpretations possible as there are denominations using them to prove they are the only ones, not to mention the interpretations of non-believers.

    This section could be used as reasoning for home schooling, Sunday school for toddlers and so on; lest ye become as little children and believe everything you are told.

    1. entech 3:10 I agree there is little commentary on this passage. And, when I looked at the various versions of the Bible what Jesus was supposed to have said seemed, to me at least, to change. What you quoted, that children are to “follow me” and woe be to those who distract them is in older versions.
      Later versions it is those who cause children to sin are to be put to death. Whatever. They definitely are not forgiven 7 times 70 times as he wants others to do.

  6. Catcher

    Jon; re. last paragraph of your topic. Did you miss my post from last night? refuting your claim that the mill stone story is not mentioned in church? I presented why it is, and when it is. we have both de-caff and reg. coffee along with home made cakes, bars, and pastry.

    1. Catcher 6:57 Did you miss my post from last night?

      Sorry–I’m on a marathon car trip and only have access here briefly each day. I’ll take your word for it Missouri Synod preachers are supposed to read this to their congregations once a year.

      I assume preachers are also required to point out Jesus’ inconsistent logic.

      1. Catcher

        @ 8;13; Not inconsistent logic at all. For example, the mill stone thingie does not condemn, but the metaphor says “It would be better”, providing room for admonishment and change.
        Better yet, it would be advisable to go to a reliable commentary to understand the words, in the Greek, context, the time, and meaning. Also the background of the occasion. (back story if you will). One good source is Lenski Vol 1. to avoid the pitfalls of hyper literalism. A practice so often done here

      2. Catcher

        @ 8;13; In addition, Not only to read to their congregations, but to use it as the text for the sermons, which of course covers your concerns of “inconsistent logic” by using the exegetical tools I mentioned in my last post.

  7. Juan Ruiz

    If people understood the whole process of how the gospels were composed, their infelicities would not be so stark. But then, they would also lose their patina of divinity.

  8. Matt Noah

    How many ways to insult a Christian, by Jon Lindgren. The book will be available at Barnes and Noble by Christmastime. There are 6666 chapters. The latest chapter in work is “Jesus, Why Didn’t He Do What He Demanded Of Others”.

    1. Matt Noah

      I forgot to mention, the first printing will be 20. Fifteen copies will be for his family with 5 others for entech, Jinx, godless, Juan Ruiz and Amazon.com.

    2. Jinx II

      Jon’s book is a reply to “I Obsess About Atheism; The Banned Man From Fargo” written by disgruntled catholic matt the worm noah. There is 1 chapter 666 pages long with no paragraphs, sentences, capital letters, semicolons, or periods. It is a nonsensical running comment of every post he made on the blog RRFT.

      Printed by himself, he kept 1 copy and gave the others to his fellow extremists who join him on the board of the Christian Shariah Cult. His book is currently evidence in a judicial case to commit him to a Psychiatric hospital indefinitely.

  9. Matt Noah

    Was that the meanest photo of Jesus you could find for this chapter in your book? He sure looks like a white Anglo-Saxon instead of a middle-eastern Jewish man.

    1. godless

      Um, looking at catholic images of jesus I see a white Anglo-Saxon instead of a middle eastern jewish man.

      1. Jinx II

        Its been said that images of Jesus look more like a Scandinavian than any other ethnic group. White men made Jesus to look like them, not the other wa around.

    2. Jinx II

      He is really ticked off at the catholic church and its priests for molesting kids, Indian residential schools, other missionary abuses against indigenous people around the world, Inquisitions, witch trials and murder and its second class treatment of women and children.

    3. entech

      Quite sad when you think that your own photograph is the kind and benevolent looking picture of yourself ever taken, you really give the impression you are looking for a puppy to kick.

    1. entech

      The thing is that with so many who give the impression that that is so, that their sect/cult/whatever is faultless, maintain that position by an incessant search for someone who can be called worse. If someone can be called worse, no matter how much you exaggerate or massage the data to make it so then that, in some weird manner of argument exonerates you.
      Now we must be honest, in some cases the groups they point to are actually just as bad and occasionally worse, But I get sick of repeating that this in no way, shape or form does this exonerate in the slightest some of the horrors.

  10. Rob

    Not being able to understand the difference in forgiveness this topic refers to, is the very definition of narcissism.

      1. entech

        Brother ??? Just happened to let the mouse wonder and up came a name from the past.
        Hi Heather how have you been?

      2. Matt 5:04 Keep the Faith, brother. This is the “C” team attacking you.

        “C” team, “B” team or “A”, it’s always the strategy to attack the messenger when you have no ammo against the message.

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