Can Telling The Truth Be A Sin

We all know of Biblical author, Paul, advised the Christian to pretend you are a Jew if you are talking to Jews about converting to Christianity (1 Corinthians 9).  That is, he advised, to lie to people if it advances your political goal.

I’ve wondered, then, what happens if one tells the truth and loses converts because of it? If Paul had said he was no longer a Jew and failed to convert Jews would that have been a sin?

In a more contemporary context, would it be a sin to tell the truth about abortion and gay marriage? Antiabortionisnts  started a lie about my wife and I. They said I had ordered the Fargo Police Department to stop protestors from illegally blocking streets and sidewalks because my wife owned the abortion clinic. Would have been a sin for them to tell the truth?

It is often claimed abortions are dangerous, that they cause physical and mental harm.  Statistics leave no doubt  abortions in a clinical setting are a safe medical procedure. Apparently, anitabortionists feel it would be a sin to reveal this true fact so they do not.

Anti gay marriage Christians often say gay marriage harms straight marriage. The truth is straight marriages are not harmed by gay marriage . It, apparently, is a sin to tell the truth about gay marriage.

One can only conclude that to some Christians, following Paul, believe hiding the truth or telling a lie is what God smiles upon. Telling lies gets one into heaven.

 

32 Responses

  1. Jinx

    I think this is an excellent question for the drumpf administration, oh wait a minute, they are christiams in name only and part of christian shariah cult.

    1. entech

      Don’t be cruel, your White House people always tell the truth, if it is convenient. They do not worry about sin at all.

  2. Dorothy L Carlson

    This was an interesting read. I can understand what you say but what about the abortion clinics themselves? They don’t say you are carrying a baby because it may be traumatic. It’s called a fetus or blob of cells. It’s not called human life. Everything is done to minimize and dehumanize the unborn child.

    1. Dorothy 11:31 Thanks for commenting.

      You are correct abortion clinics do not call the fetus a “baby” because it is a fetus. As far as calling it “human life” I don’t know what part of my own body is not “human life”. My finger nail is “human life.” A fertilized cell is often referred to by antiabortionists as “human life” which it is. It is not, however, a human being.

    1. Henry 7:20 Jon, there is a difference in pretending to be a jew and observing some of their customs out of respect.

      Paul does not say that. It is clear from what he does say that he is pretending to be a Jew with the goal of converting them. There is no way to spin Paul but to admit he tried to deceive Jews by pretending to a Jew.

      I did not do what Paul did, pretend to be someone I was not. I did not pretend to be gay to convert straight people to become gay. Nor, did I pretend to be straight to convert gay people to be straight. The fact that you brought up the topic of gay-straight deception makes me wonder why???

      1. Henry

        If I saw you marching in a gay parade pretending to be gay, I would think you are gay. Of course, we know that is not true, and by your logic, deception on your part.

        1. Henry 9:00 If I saw you marching in a gay parade pretending to be gay, I would think you are gay. Of course, we know that is not true, and by your logic, deception on your part.

          That’s funny. Obviously, you have never seen a gay pride parade. Probably half the entries are social agencies, churches, civic groups and other allies. No one watching the parade would think all the participants were gay.

          1. Henry

            Just because church organizations are involved in the gay parade does not exclude those particular members from being gay.

            You have not adequately explained why you were not deceptive, using your logic.

          2. Henry 10:21 I agree people that march in gay parades as support may or may not be gay. The same is true of the Veterans Day Parade. We who march in the gay parade are not deceptive like Paul. Paul would carry a sign, “I AM A JEW.” I carried signs, Red River Freethinkers or Iowa Atheists. These showed who I was and what I represented. If Paul had been as honest as I was he would have had a sign, “I AM A CHRISTIAN TRYING TO CONVERT JEWS AWAY FROM THEIR FAITH.”

            Paul chose to deceive.

          3. entech

            The Henry @ 1:45, absolutely fascinating. The Henry in his desperation to unleash the hounds of war has again managed a toy dog, some kind of lap dog.

            First post introduces homosexual, one of his favourite subjects. Now The Henry is trying to equate a diplomatic use of a traditional form of dress with deliberately lying. As in:
            20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
            21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.
            22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

            Here we have it whatever it takes to gain a convert, if it is lies and misrepresentation it doesn’t matter for, The End Justifies the Means.

            Here we have the Queen of England wearing a typical English headscarf. With her, and to be polite wearing a traditional English riding costume, is US President Ronald Reagan. Do you think this fancy dress makes Reagan a traitor or a Queen, or both? Or perhaps just a diplomat like Hilary.
            https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/ronald-reagan-queen-elizabeth-england.jpg?quality=85&w=1606

          4. entech

            Anything that is not firmly attached to your narrow selfcentred thought patterns ever follows for you.

            Your whole burbling on this thread is only your attempt to be anti Jon, a total failure just making yourself look narrow and selfcentred.

          5. entech

            This is a rainbow shirt, Jon’s was plain white with some writing on it.
            http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GILDAN-Tie-Dye-100-Cotton-Tee-T-Shirt-Small-2XL-Hippie-Colour-Fun-Loud-Rainbow-/152173901106?var=&hash=item236e457532:m:mewO7tRtp6U_pgm2oanwkpQ

            It is quite a tradition for statesmen to wear something appropriate to the country and occasion. Jon is not exactly a statesman but can still wear something to suit the occasion as a mark of solidarity. It would be expected, he would not wear a Westboro Baptist Church – I hate gays T-Shirt (you might).
            Here is a good one Bush and Putin in matching baby blue silk smiling nicely and if you look quickly you could think they were holding hands. Neither of these two are particular fans of China nor pretending to be Chinese. Would Bush lie ???
            https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/bush-putin-apec-traditional-clothes.jpg?quality=85&w=1382

            So we start with references to a Gay March in post one, no one has suggested Paul for that role even to get converts. And finish with reference to Hilary wearing a headscarf. After all this based on a topic heading about lies and sin. The contention was that Paul did whatever was necessary to convert people – not even you would suggest that Jon was trying to convert someone like you to take up the “Gay Lifestyle”. So just Carm down and stop trying so hard you are making yourself look more removed from reality that usual.

          6. Henry

            As I so lovingly say to my immediate family members concerning those matters when disaster strikes, “you got to be careful.”

            🙂

          7. Henry 11:19 Yes, my history of destroying laptops is the stuff of legends. Telling your family to be careful is good advice. It seems like smart phones are at least a little more able to withstand bumps and drops than laptops. I’m now back home and trying a new repair place to see if I have lost another one or just a few hundred $ in repairs. 🙁

          8. Henry

            Jon:“Telling your family to be careful is good advice.”

            Not always well received, especially in the heat of the moment. However, being the one who pays for these situations, it is the only satisfaction I can take in it.

            If you were still in Fargo, I would recommend PC Parts and Supplies. Been around forever, good, and the price is right. They even have 20 year-old parts to fix legacy systems, if you are into that. I had an old IBM 8088 that had a bad RAM chip. They had the part in stock in the year 2000.

  3. entech

    In general, atheists are not to be trusted because they are their own God. Their morality is not a shared morality but a morality of self. In other words, they have little to no sense of guilt. Any wrong they commit they can gloss over by claiming it is a new morality. …
    Come on The Henry according to your Friend The Matt you should not expect any different, after all without your God no one can do anything right.

    And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
    I don’t think anyone thought Jon was anything other than a supporter at the gay pride marches. But here it is quite explicit , Paul said I deceived them in order to convert them.

  4. Steve

    Paul was both a Jew and a Christian. Saul was a Jew only. ‘Jews for Jesus’ are Christian Jews, can eat what they want (including only kosher foods) and can expose their identities as Christians to non-Christian Jews at their discretion with no dishonesty.

    1. Steve 7:56 Paul was both a Jew and a Christian. Saul was a Jew only.

      That is not what Paul said. He said he had to pretend to be a Jew when he was with Jews in order to convert them. If he was already a Jew he would not have needed to pretend he was one.

      1. Steve

        He did not need to pretend. He was a Jew. He never uses the word ‘pretend’ and why would he? He was schooled under Gamaliel for heaven’s sake. Saul was the most Jewish of Jews. Paul was still thoroughly a Jew.

        1. Steve 8:54 He did not need to pretend. He was a Jew. He never uses the word ‘pretend’ and why would he?

          That’s what makes to Bible so genius, we don’t know what he actually wrote because there are many different versions. From all those versions one can interpret what they mean depending on the outcome one wants. I read three different ways he supposedly phrased his deception, “When I was with the Jews…1.) I lived like a Jew. 2.) I became like a Jew 3.) I became as a Jew.” In none of those did he say, “I was a Jew.” Apparently he did not agree with you that he was a Jew.

          It is obvious to me he himself felt he was doing an act of deception or he would not even have mentioned “as a Jew” etc because it would not have been necessary. But it was necessary because he was not a Jew.

          1. Steve

            What?!?! It seems as though you are actually trying to argue that Paul was not Jewish, and this by one phrase in a letter rather than considering the full weight of scripture. You can’t be serious. Paul’s own testimony: “Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the He-brews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.” (Philippians 3:5-6) I know of no one else who tries to claim Paul was not a Jew.

            You seem so often to not have even the most rudimentary knowledge of scripture. Some knowledge of scripture should just be table stakes even for just participating in a blog like this, let alone facilitating it. You say the CRAZIEST things, mixing an ounce of scripture with an ocean of imagination, resulting in arguments that are not even coherent. What are you doing with your life?

          2. Steve 1:45You say the CRAZIEST things, mixing an ounce of scripture with an ocean of imagination, resulting in arguments that are not even coherent. What are you doing with your life?

            I just read the Bible, sometimes believers are careless about that. Paul would not have had to write about pretending to be a Jew had he not left the faith. He had left it, so he had to pretend he was still in it. He had to put on the dog. I’d suggest you review that part of his writing.

        2. Juan Ruiz

          ” He was schooled under Gamaliel for heaven’s sake.”

          It is Luke who makes this statement. Paul never does.

          1. Steve

            “Paul would not have had to write about pretending to be a Jew had he not left the faith. He had left it, so he had to pretend he was still in it.”

            So now you acknowledge at least that Paul had been a Jew. Jesus was a Jew, and Jesus was also the very fulfillment of the Jewish faith.* If a Jew follows Jesus he does not leave the Jewish faith. That would be impossible. Paul was the ultimate “Jew for Jesus.”

            *He was the one they were looking for, whether they acknowledge(d) that or not.

          2. Steve 12:15 So now you acknowledge at least that Paul had been a Jew.

            And you acknowledge correctly “had been” in the past tense. He “had been” a Jew and said, according to scripture, he must act like one, which he no longer was, to convert them to Christianity. I’ve asked several times here why he felt it necessary to point out, and apparently advise others, if they were Christians they needed to act as if they were Jews to convert Jews. If he was still one of the Jews he would not need to pretend he was one.

            You surely must admit also the very fulfillment of the Jewish faith is an opinion and not a statement of fact. If it were a statement of fact all Jews today and those at the time it was first claimed would agree. As you well know, the majority did not and do not to this day. They are equally free to make your bold claim, even if Christians refuse to admit it, Jesus was not the fulfillment of the Jewish faith.

Comments are closed.