Donald Trump And The Return Of Jesus

Having been called the actual Satan during my political life, it is not surprising to learn that millions of voters are at this moment supporting Donald Trump because of the coming apocalypse.

The reasoning goes like this. Obama is Satan and he ushered in all the policies Satan wanted, gay marriage, continuing abortion and lack of support for Israel. Those who believe the end is near think they have been charged by Jesus to fight sin until he returns.

God has begun preparations for the end they believe. The first step is to elect Donald Trump President so he can punish those making God angry.

There are those who cannot understand the support for Trump. They understate the passion for the second coming. The second coming and responsibility to punish sinners swamps any policy discussion.

There is this belief, and it is seemingly always present, that these are the worst of times. Today it is gay marriage and abortion. A few years back it was something else. Yet, the stories in the Bible are worse than anything happening today.

Those who believe the “second coming” is eminent should remind themselves this has been predicted since the time Jesus was supposed to have lived. In fact, the Bible says Jesus himself thought the world would end in his lifetime.

To those who believe a.) a second coming is eminent and b.) Donald Trump will fulfill some religious goal, I can only repeat the words attributed to PT Barnum, “A sucker in born every minute.”

64 Responses

    1. entech

      Weird is an understatement, who on earth would call him such a thing, perhaps Matt is hating and weird enough but I doubt it. I can imagine someone with enough suppressed rage to call him the devil incarnate but the actual Satan? one would need to be completely nuts or at least in thrall to a weird superstition (possibly the same thing).

      On the other hand there are some weird ideas being put out, I have read people writing that either Obama or the Pope is the anti-Christ, nominating someone that you have extreme antipathy towards as such an entity is weird enough but you really have to question the sanity of people that believe such stuff. One of the important reasons for people like Jon to blog away and try and make people aware of different possibilities is that if people like this are not checked we are all in danger. If all these end times believers had their way and managed to bring on Armageddon without proof of the existence of God and/or the validity of the weird writings they get their ideas from, then the human race will cease to exist for nothing but a weird madness.

      Chucky, thanks for pointing this out, I would never have thought of it on my own.

  1. Matt Noah

    So you’re linked article for today’s foray in to fantasy land is a Seattle Time oped from a liberal history professor with a wacky theory. I’m sure there are several hundred people who believe this theory in the USA. There are also several hundred people who believe UFOs have landed in New Mexico who are preparing to colonize the earth and eliminate the human race.

    1. entech

      Conversely – It appears that historical events are being confirmed as Biblical.
      No one denies that “some”of the things recorded in the Jewish Bible were Historical, this does not mean all of them were. Nothing except faith can verify the first chapters of Genesis, or indeed any of the Pentateuch.

      By a small stretch, of the type we are used to from Christians and Catholics this can be read as a prophecy of the coming messiah, or a demonstration of the truth of the Apostolic Succession/Progression or whatever other fantasies are read into the simply historical parts of the Jewish Bible. The efforts to maintain the monotheism are well documented, that Baal and the others were false Gods does not does not mean that Jehovah was the one and only true God or that he fathered a son who was the messiah and also was himself (a divine mystery).

  2. The Julius Project

    “…the Bible says Jesus himself thought the world would end in his lifetime.”

    Could you share where this is found?

    1. Matt Noah

      Let me attempt to answer for him (a very dangerous attempt). The answer is no (because it isn’t found anywhere except in his mind – a place we don’t want to go).

    2. entech

      Tried to answer this earlier but the post seemed to get lost.
      The answer is no, no where does it say the world word end in Jesus lifetime. If nothing else this would invalidate the idea of the crucifixion and no crucifixion no Christianity. There are, however, many places that say the end or the second coming will be in the lifetime of the current generation of apostles. That the end was imminent, no suggestion that it could be thousands of years away, even the comment that no one but God himself new the time and date seems to refer to a nearby unknown date. Paul obviously believed it when advocating chastity, with little or no birthrate we are not planning on a long term situation on that would simply die out as the population itself faded away.
      Wasn’t God himself that said go forth and multiply, celibacy goes against that idea in a rather extreme way.

  3. Matt Noah

    There seems to be 2 possibilities here. (1) Jon Lindgren is, in all seriousness, entering Alzheimer’s Disease or dementia, or (2) he cannot distinguish between the truth and a lie. Both are pathological. I’m sure he will dismiss both. In all Christian sincerity, I am concerned about possibility 1 the most. It is not a great condition, especially at the onset.

    Possibility 2 seems much more likely but just as troubling in some sense in that someone has lost the sense of reason. I understand getting married to a particular idea beyond reason. But when confronted with easily refutable facts, Jon seems unwilling and unable to respond. I understand he can mask his pathology by not responding but it is plainly obvious even to the unbiased observer at this point. Seriously, when did Christ predict the end of the world is His own lifetime?

    I hope someone who is watching over Jon is reading this blog and takes this seriously.

    1. Matt 10:10 Seriously, when did Christ predict the end of the world is His own lifetime?

      It’s right in front of you nose. Are you saying Christ said it would be long into the future? I wrote that Jesus thought it would be in his life time. From the scripture I provided, that is what he thought. It did not say he thought is would be in the distant future.

      The point is he thought it was eminent and anyone who thinks it is eminent now should be aware this claim has been made since day one.

      1. Matt Noah

        Jon, seriously, seek help.

        Do you now realize you are telling us what an imaginary man was thinking 2000 years ago? Not only do you not believe in the man, you don’t believe in the scripture.

        Talk to your wife. Perhaps she should read your hobby.

        1. entech

          … imaginary man was thinking 2000 years ago? Not only do you not believe in the man, you don’t believe in the scripture.
          What Jon, or I or Juan or anyone believes is irrelevant, it is what you believe and it is to what you believe that the questions are put. It is questioning your belief system and the bible that underpins that belief that requires us to use Biblical quotes and references. Centuries before Christianity we had Zoroastrianism a bronze religion which arguably had an influence on the early Jewish move from polytheism to monotheism or possibly vice versa or a mutual influence, there can be no doubt that there was some cross cultural relationships in the area. Early Hinduism was more obviously monotheistic at this time with the proto semi-gods being warriors of legend rather like Joshua in the Old Testament. Even so it would be silly to try and discuss Christianity by using the Avesta, the Rigveda or the Egyptian book of the dead. No we need to use the “Scripture” and try to work our way around the Old Testament, the immutable work or God and the New Testament, the immutable work of Paul. We have apologists specializing explaining and justifying the potential differences and contradictions – the problem becomes apparent when you keep adding to the explanations and coming to the stage where you can explain everything while actually explaining nothing.

          Do you now realize you are using some very dishonest reasoning to try and invalidate your opposition. When an argument is put up that the Bible justifies stoning people to death for working on the Sabbath it is no rebuttal to the actual words used to say “ah but you don’t believe those words are valid”; this leads to the sought of ad hominem “what would you know you ATHEIST you”.

          1. Juan Ruiz

            What seems to go forgotten is that both the Old and New testaments as collected works are late. The OT was not canonized until ca 100 CE. The NT, after some 2nd century CE work (Marcion, Irenaeus) did not come together until the 4th century. Even then, different communities included different texts. Roman Catholic dogma, in which texts were officially confirmed, did not happen until the Council of Trent in 1546.

        2. Matt 11:33 Jon, seriously, seek help. Do you now realize you are telling us what an imaginary man was thinking 2000 years ago? Not only do you not believe in the man, you don’t believe in the scripture

          You are right in that we are arguing about quotations no one actually heard provided by unknown writers. They were quoting not only words they never heard but attributing them to an undocumented person. I am taking this ridiculous claim even further, saying that when Jesus was quoted as saying the world would end before some of us in the room are dead he was including himself because he was in the room.

          The Bible is fulfilling its great purpose, entertaining people.

        1. Julius 6:42 I’m not seeing that Scripture reference, Jon…could you share it again, please.
          In my blog I did not claim those who made up quotes from Jesus said, “I believe the world will end in my lifetime.” So, you are right in that there is no such quote. You are wrong in implying I said there was such a quote.

          It is clear to me, however, the character portrayed as Jesus is assigned the view that the world will end in his lifetime. He is quoted as saying, the way I paraphrase what he allegedly said, “The end will come before some of us in this room (and he was in the room) die.”

          Scholars of the Bible disagree on what the character call Jesus was claimed to have been thinking. Apparently you rule out the possibility writers attributed to Jesus the thought of the world ending in his lifetime. As I said earlier, you are welcomed to join the millions who disagree about most everything in the Bible.

          Lost on me is what difference all this makes. No one who quoted Jesus actually heard what Jesus said anyway. But, both you and I enjoy arguing about this so it provides harmless entertainment for us.

          1. The Julius Project

            We all need a good hermeneutic. Unfortunately, it is clear and apparent that you have no hermeneutic to spesk of, whatsoever. No wonder your train of logic is so very often…illogical.

            By definition that is not free-thinking. Unless free-thinking includes coming to conclusions based on nothing but a feeling or impression.

            Treat yourself to a good hermeneutic, Jon.

    2. entech

      The only pathological thing here is Matt’s hatred, no other word will suffice, of Jon. I wonder if it would help if Jon apologized for whatever he did when Matt was young, whether actual or imagined, perhaps he accidentally ran over Matt’s puppy with his motor car. It must be something like that to account for the intensity and virulence, the blind, unthinking hatred. So blind that even when there is nothing there Matt will find (or frequently invent) something anyway.

    3. pqbd

      Noah @ 10:10 pm

      I think you’ve gone nose blind to your own flatulent style when you feign ‘Christian sincerity’ as you snark about the mental health of others. if the tone and temper of your posts are examples of ‘Christian sincerity’, scepticism about the legitimacy of your faith is justified and warrants a stank-faced response. I smell mania.

      1. entech

        Don’t be too cruel he can’t help himself anymore than a homosexual can, he doesn’t choose to be such a bore anymore than a homosexual chooses their lifestyle.
        Thinking about in these terms puts one in mind of the possibility of crass abuse and vindictiveness could possibly (and only possibly, this is far removed from my field of knowledge) be a sign of extreme frustration. They say confession is good for the soul and Catholics can confess with immunity, it is kept secret and a couple of lines of scripture recited will allow one of God’s self appointed representatives on earth to forgive it all. On the other hand perhaps he should just relax and be happy in the thought that there probably is no God.

  4. Henry

    Jon:“Having been called the actual Satan during my political life, it is not surprising to learn that millions of voters are at this moment supporting Donald Trump because of the coming apocalypse.”

    No, they are not happy in how Hillary has been treating her step-son. Black lives matter, unless you are Hillary Clinton’s step-son.

      1. Henry

        The DNA test results were never produced. The owner of the tabloid reporting there was no DNA match are friends of Hillary. Bill gave the tabloid owner’s incarcerated son clemency on his way out of office. Favors sometimes get favors returned. There is some kind of fancy Latin jargon for that. Meanwhile, the MSM took the tabloid’s initial report at face value, so the record of no match is established without substantiation.

        However, Hillary’s step-son’s features are uncannily like Bill’s. Same handsome jawline. Same eyes and browline. Same nose. Some even say he is a liar (including 7:46)….well if that is true, the apple does not fall too far from the tree. We have four witnesses, Hillary’s step-son, his mother, his handsome features, and Hillary’s husband’s behavior. They may even be able to find the other two members of the reported foursome to attest that were together at Hillary’s mother-in-law’s country cabin.

        1. entech

          As I say I know little of local affaires but can only point out that in true Henryist fashion you always seem to resolve any potential anomalies in favour of what you believe.

          Don’t pick on poor old Bill, power has always been a powerful aphrodisiac, and men in power often have the propensity to rule with a rod of iron, in a manner of speaking.

          1. Henry

            entech: “Don’t pick on poor old Bill, power has always been a powerful aphrodisiac, and men in power often have the propensity to rule with a rod of iron, in a manner of speaking.”

            You are making excuses for men in power to do what?

        2. Henry 8:14 The owner of the tabloid reporting there was no DNA match are friends of Hillary.

          Sounds precisely like the Whitewater story, the Vince Foster story and all the others that turned out not to be true. As I said, our national pastime is not baseball, it is making up stories about the Clintons. I find them, like the Bible, entertaining.

          1. Henry 11:42 I need not make them up, just listening to the witnesses.

            Ah yes, “witnesses”. Weren’t there “witnesses” to all of the accusations about Hillary. Benghazi, nothing there, emails, nothing there, her health, nothing there. Now we have a “witness” who was a prostitute saying Clinton is the father of a child. How does she know it was not one of many other men? The DNA doesn’t match but the test was “bogus”. I’m not saying this child is absolutely not his, just that there is not one tiny bit of creditable evidence.

          2. Henry

            Jon: “Benghazi, nothing there, emails, nothing there, her health, nothing there.”

            Benghazi, just a few men left stranded to die, when the forces to rescue were at the ready and capable. Nothing there…..

            Emails, many classified falling into public domain due to moving files offsite to person unsecure contrary to sworn testimony. Nothing there….

            Her health, just a deadly deep vein thrombosis situation and frequent general collapse amongst many other ticking time bombs. No problem. Nothing there…..

  5. entech

    Come on chaps lets get ourselves together, this is getting so crass with Matt leading us all down the rabbit hole, and some of us (me anyway) willingly and gleefully following him. At least I have an excuse, you wouldn’t expect anything else from an atheist, pity the one leading the degradation is such a kind gentle and loving Christian gentleperson.

    1. Henry

      entech:“Come on chaps lets get ourselves together, this is getting so crass with Matt leading us all down the rabbit hole, and some of us (me anyway) willingly and gleefully following him.”

      I thought we were talking about reasons why some people were voting for Trump? Now, we cannot continue? How Hillary treats her step-son is relevant and affects people votes. Let’s not tear her stepson down as to be a liar as you did. She is the one running for high office. Let’s vet the candidate. Trump is being vetted, both legally and illegally. Someone illegally leaked his tax return. He had a $900 million business loss. Guess what? He previously wrote in one of his books of the $900 million loss. I guess he told the truth and didn’t hide it as the MSM is leading us to otherwise believe. He put it in print before being leaked.

      1. entech

        Typical little bit of Henryism here, It was you that introduced your favourite topic (for the moment) – the horrors of the Clintons. Continue all you like, I started this as a new thread not to shut down your bit of stirring. The Henryist cannot resist lying at any opportunity if it calls attention to one of the defects in an opponent’s argument. Read what I wrote again and apologise for your lie because truly I never mentioned the alleged stepson only one of many newspaper articles I came across. I had never even heard of this until you mentioned it.

        No what I was referring to was the way this topic has turned into a personal vehicle for Matt (clearly referenced) to spout his irrational hatred for Jon.
        Surprised you haven’t joined him, you two being new best buddies forever, proving love and tolerance can prevail, the Catholic and The Lutheran holding hands and attacking the evil nonbeliever, until Matt puts his foot in it about Catholicism being the only true and genuine form of Christianity tracing itself back to pre-Christian days, even to pre crucifiction days.

        1. Henry

          You said they were false rumors. This statement implies Hillary’s step-son is not truthful in what he is telling us. The witness count is four. That would even meet the absurd burden of proof in a Moslem country. Meanwhile we have some singular hearsay evidence of a supposed DNA test proving there is no paternity.

          You can apologize any time.

          1. entech

            More lies by implication. As I said I just mentioned a newspaper I had seen, one of many on the subject. You tend to lie through your teeth while accusing everyone else of the same, just like your new best buddy Matt.

          2. Henry

            The poor little Aussie lass, just mentioning a newspaper! Then he suddenly gets caught up in this swirling controversy. What innocence!

          3. Henry

            Then the poor little lass like a good conniving schoolgirl dutifully keeps track of whose buddy is whose, playing the game of conquer and divide to whatever manipulation seems to be to the lass’s advantage.

            Grow up and be a man.

          4. entech

            Actually I know nothing and care less about what your people in power do, I am, however fascinated by the extraordinary lengths the lovers and haters go to validate themselves.

            Poor little lass is this from the humourist that complains of name calling and such things. Hypocrisy personified.

  6. LJ

    For those who have asked, the verse you are referring to and paraphrasing is likely Matthew 16:28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” It could also possibly be Matthew 24:34, “Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened.” Although most Christians today would tell you that these phrases are “symbolic” or that Jesus was not speaking literally. And apparently several Christians who comment on this site, simply don’t know their scripture very well, otherwise they would’ve been able to provide these verses on their own. Though he didn’t actually say that it would be “in his lifetime”, I think if everyone here was honest with themselves, they would admit that they knew you were implying “in his generation” or very soon at least, even if not “in his lifetime”. Jesus certainly gave no indication that he thought we’d still be waiting for the kingdom of God to appear 2000 years later.

    1. LJ 11:09 Thanks for coming here to comment.

      For pointing out what Jesus said, I have been labeled mentally unstable. While I don’t wish for you the same “compliment”, I must make you aware it may be coming.

      1. Matt Noah

        Jon, when asked for the quote from Jesus from multiple people, not just me, you produced nothing. You still haven’t produced the scripture. Even entech stated that you’re wrong. When the lapdogs bark at you, something is wrong.

      2. LJ

        Jon, Thanks for the warning, though I’ve been reading the comments on this blog long enough that I know what to expect and from whom. I don’t normally comment, but felt I needed to provide the verses in question to at least settle that “facts” portion of the argument. The intent of those statements as quoted in Matthew are, and will likely long be argued amongst intellectuals and theologans.

        1. Matt Noah

          It is a settled issue and has been for centuries. But have fun with it if you desire. Theologians of any repute have more important issues to consume their time than this trivial non-issue.

          1. LJ

            I respect your opinion on the matter, but I must point out that if it truly were a settled issue, it would never have been brought up. Just because one group of people decided that something is truth, doesn’t make it so. 1.6 billion Muslims believe that Jesus was just a prophet, and their prophet was greater and wrote the inspired word of God. Just because 1.6 billion people believe something, doesn’t make it true. Also, I sincerely believe that as a Christian, you should take the time engage in intellectual debate over these issues. The Christian religion evolved into what it is today because of such debates. And I personally enjoy learning what other people think about these subjects, as long as debate doesn’t turn into name-calling and shaming. I think that very few details that are related to your eternal salvation/damnation could be considered trivial and some people might actually appreciate insightful comments related to those subjects.

          2. Matt Noah

            It is a settle issue in the Christian and Jewish world. Atheists can bring it up as an instrument to poke fun at Christians and Jews.

          3. entech

            Matt are you certain it is settled in the Jewish world, I thought in the Jewish world Yeshua was just another pretender to the throne.

    2. Matt Noah

      LJ, I won’t suggest you are pathological in any sense. Jon is being Jon with his comment.

      However, selectively quoting and interpreting scripture is the reason we have so many Christian denominations and people lacking in understanding.

      If one simply googles “When Did Jesus say the earth would end” will provide both scholarly work and otherwise. What is true is that Christ (God, Holy Spirit) did not state the earth would end in His lifetime (that time up until the crucifixion). First, He lives forever. He rose from the dead and appeared to the Apostles. Hence, he was alive after He died.

      The best scripture on this subject is very personal. Death comes like a thief in the night. Be prepared because we do NOT know the time, the place or the means by which we will die. The Second Coming of Christ could occur today, next week, in a million years. No one knows. Be prepared.

      Jon loves to make outlandish statements in the hopes no one will challenge him. He thinks he is being cute or clever. My assessment is that he has mental health issues and should turn to loved ones for care. I say this with utmost sincerity and concern. I have seen people who used to argue with me that have dementia now. They are my friends even though we had terrible disagreements.

      1. Wanna Be Sure

        @ 12;37; “I have seen people who used to argue with me that have dementia now.” It must mean to argue with Matt, is to receive the curse of dementia.. Then he will be your friend. Pure Dark Ages Catholicism. The Inquisitor is alive and well. At least dementia isn’t as painful as the rack, boiling or burning, “Discipline” Matt’s favorite word a couple days ago.

        Signed – – – – I forget. Never mind.

        1. entech

          Wanna, I can appreciate all of this, when Matt is in full flight I sometimes wonder which of us is demented:
          Simple Definition of demented
          : not able to think clearly or to understand what is real and what is not real : crazy or insane

          Matt does seem to lose track of reality and spin off into some imagined world that is everything he thinks it ought to be.
          It is an insightful statement but a strange confession
          “I have seen people who used to argue with me that have dementia now.”
          Trying to argue with Matt is something that could drive you crazy, to paraphrase an old navy joke, You don’t have to be mad to attempt a rational discussion with Matt but it sure does help.

          1. Wanna Be Sure

            @ 7;55; Entech; Just be aware that if Matt has such authority that dementia is the result when someone argues with him, he could be dangerous. Your cows could dry up, and your horse could go lame. (See curses, and hexes),

          2. Wanna Be Sure

            I understand there is a difference between demonic activity,(demons being active), and the activity of someone placing a hex/ curse for something like disagreement in an argument.(the active party). I don’t know if the hex/ curse placement is due to active involvement, or passive. I would suspect if one was as powerful as Matt, passive would be all that is necessary. This is beyond commission and omission. Don’t cross paths with Matt. or let his shadow drift across you. You will get dementia before he has the time to reign in his powers. If only we could touch the hem of his garment for healing.

          3. Wanna Be Sure

            re. sour milk. Any good demon or cook knows a spoon of vinegar will do the trick. Works good for making sour cream in an emergency too. Works best with milk that hasn’t been pasteurized. Dried up cows and lame horses is more advanced.

          4. Wanna Be Sure

            @7;52; To clarify a possible supposition; I don’t believe in anyone placing a curse or hex on anyone. Matt evidently does if one disagrees with him, if even by omission.

      2. LJ

        Matt 12:37, I appreciate that you wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that I’m pathological after reading only one comment I made in which I pointed out that you were correct in saying that the words “in his lifetime” weren’t scriptural. And I agree that it’s dangerous to take one or two verses and try to interpret them separately, which is why I don’t think that you can make the claim that the “best” scripture for this is the one where he says “no one knows”. The other two scriptures that I quoted, don’t say the exact day or time, they only give a general time frame, and Jesus did, according to Matthew, say all of those things. So, they can’t be discounted when interpreting his view of the end times. Now, whether or not his words were literal (as in he believed it), symbolic, or meant simply to move people to action then, now, and until the end of the ages, is up for debate. And I doubt that a definitive resolution will be found anytime soon, unless Obama is, in fact, the antichrist and he declares himself to be God. Then I think you’d have quite a few converts to the latter view.

        1. Matt Noah

          You brought up 2 verses in scriptures that you believe point to doubt on the issue. I simply referenced my favorite scriptural reference. There are many, many others. That is why I referred anyone reading this blog to google a certain phrase. I am not responsible for educating everyone on the theology of this particular subject. I put Jon’s assertion to the test and he failed miserably. I’m sorry that his feelings are hurt.

  7. Jinx

    With the delusions of the worm (mattie), henrie, julie and chuckie, does this blog need an exorcist to rid itself of the extreme views of the christian??

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