Church and Crime Rap Sheet.

Disclaimer. The following are not meant to represent the majority of clergy/staff in the Christian Religion.  Following are about 1/5 of the cases listed bimonthly in Freethought Today, published by the Freedom From Religion Foundation:

ARRESTED/CHARGED

Tyer Bliss, Oakdale, CA, H. S. and college ministries, Bethel Assembly of God.  Suspicion of child pornography.

Charles Pittman, Jackson, TN, youth minister, Providence Baptist Church. 1st Degree Murder.

Mellony Scarlett Lewis, Houston, TX, youth pastor, United Methodist Church.  Sexual relationship with a 15 year old girl.

Adam Emerson, Clinton, MS., Bible and psychology teacher, Central Hines Christian Academy. Gratification of lust while in a position of authority.

Brandon Finch, Fitchburg, WI, multimedia tech, People’s United Methodist Church, Oregon, WI, possession of child porn.

Timothy Kane, Highland Park, MI, associate pastor in three Catholic parishes, 6 counts of felony fraud.

Bruce H. Aycock, Chapel Hill, NC, former youth director, Cape Fear Presbyterian Church, receiving and distributing child porn.

Ayeh Greenes, Los Angles, CA, Ultra Orthodox Rabbi, 34 counts of bank fraud and false statements on bank loan applications.

Michael Abromovich, Colorado Springs, CO, pastor, Set Free Ministry, aggrevated robbery, kidnapping and impersonating a police officier.

Nunzio Scarano, Slaerno, Italy, top Vatican accountant, money laundering and false statements.

Michael Kelly, Stockton, CA, priest, Diocese of Stockton, three counts of lewd and lascivious conduct on a child.

PLEADED/CONVICTED:

John Roebuck, Lansdale, PA, parochial vicar, St. Stanislaus Catholic Chuch. Indecent assault.

SENTENCED

Robert F. Poandl, Cincinnati, OH, Catholic Priest, 7 years, transporting minor in interstate commerce.

CIVIL LAWSUITS SETTLED:

Diocese of San Bernadino, CA, $3.8 million, sexual abuse of 12 year old boy.

Archdiocese of Chicago, IL, $3.15 abuse of male between 8th and 11th grade.

LEGAL DEVELOPMENTS:

Catholic Archdiocese of St. Louis, MO, court order to turn over names of priest alledged to have abused over a 20 year period.

Diocese of Helena, MT, filed bankruptcy to avoid some costs of $15 million abuse settlement.

ALLEGATIONS:

St. Paul, MN, police have began investigations into seven allegations of inappropriate sexual behavior by Catholic priests.

 

Avatar of Jon Lindgren

About Jon Lindgren

I am a former President of the Red River Freethinkers in Fargo, ND, a retired NDSU economics professor and was Mayor of Fargo for 16 years. There is more about me at Wikipedia.com.
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125 Responses to Church and Crime Rap Sheet.

  1. Henry says:

    Jon, your post is pathetic with no point. Here is another list:
    http://listverse.com/2010/06/05/10-people-who-give-atheism-a-bad-name/

    • entech says:

      At least Jon comes up with a new list, yours is just sitting on your machine ready for one of your usual mindless interjections.

      • H.P.Drifter says:

        Same mental case Henry doing his thing

        • Henry says:

          More personal attack. I would think that atheists, the supposed subscribers of logic and reason would not slip and fall. Rather, they embrace pure fallacy.

        • noblindersonme says:

          please henry – Jon’s post does have point! If the ‘examples’ he listed of religious sinners was fiction THEN he would guilty of pointless blogging. Your ’2 wrongs make a right ‘ counterpost hardly proves you to be better at the truth. Did it make you feel better to counter balance Jon’s list?
          I too am interested in history and I remember Martin Luther’s #1 complaint with the Catholic church ( in the 1500′s) and it was the selling of indulgences. Imagine that ! The selling for profit of moral behavior! Do the sin – Ok- sell ,barter ,trade , with a religious figure ( catholic) and the money went to build great buildings in Rome etc. Pope Innocent was the guy behind that!
          Henry I thought GOD was the ultimate decider! Wheeling and dealing about sin sure as hell aint my idea of religious morality.
          so aint that kinda what you guys engage in? List a shameful example of a’ minister rap sheet’ and you counter balance it with one of ‘atheists in crime’! You aint really getting some bucks for pointing the finger at other sinners but you sure seem to be trying to absolve or mimimize their sins.
          HENRY ,GOD aint playing that stupid game of SWAP!
          Wrong is wrong . Perhaps when you find your ultimate reward ( down there) you will see all those sinning christians and sinning atheists together in hellfire as GOD decides.

          • Fr. James says:

            It was Pope Julius II who decided to build the new St. Peter’s. In Luther’s time it was Pope Leo X.

            I don’t think you know what an indulgence is. It is not a permission to sin. If you are interested in history then please study it objectively.

            I think it is fair to point out the bad atheists. Besides this whole post of Jon’s was simply to bash Christians and foment hatred. I think you need to reflect on who is really playing games.

          • josh says:

            It is sad that pedophiliac homosexuals, con artists, and sociopaths infiltrate the churches in order to carry out their crimes. These people are not christians and never have been, They’re evil criminals who take advantage of the innocent and loving people of those churches in order to perform their devious acts. They see an easy target and go for it. In no way ever associate these criminals with christians. They’re not. They’re predators looking for an easy kill. You know that John and it’s really disappointing that you would use that attack. Christians get painted as the criminals because wolves in sheeps clothing have snuck into our midst.

        • noblindersonme says:

          In response to “Fr ” James who took me to task . I did some research and yes indeed it was Pope Leo X who was involved in that during Luther’s day . I stand corrected as I was just was raving off the top of my head. but as least I brought the issue forward with new ground ( old history ) .
          But honestly whether it was Pope Leo or Pope Bubba , it does not make much difference, Luther was questioning ‘ the idea of the pope, one of the richest men in the world ,raising money for his projects ( rebuilding St Peters Basilica in Rome) from the poor’. I took that directly from MY history book! ” Since the 11th century the Catholic church,developed a practice of selling indulgences , complete or partial remission of temporal punishment of sins , that had been confessed or absolved “. Again from my history book and a chapter from history well documented.
          I don’t care frankly , Fr James, how you twist that , it sure as hell seems to be a path on which ‘permission’ was given to those who sin”!
          Cheat on your wife , rape the neighbor’s slave, steal from the till , well ,confess it to your priest behind those curtains , and then if you pay the church an indulgence! the penace will be modified ! and the Pope will get another brick for his cathedral.
          If you sir are interested in history then study that objectively! An ‘objective ‘ view of that history tells me it was a pretty sick practice , and also tells me why there was a vast movement thereafter to dump the Catholic church in favor of the ” Protest’ant movement.
          Lastly , if your twist was that Jon’s ‘sole ‘ point was to forment hatred towards Christians by listing those criminals of the cloth , would it be safe to assume you would have ignored or been willing to sweep those creeps under some proverbial rug so as not to accept them . I don’t think Jon was ‘ playing that game!”
          perhaps you would be OK with those on Jon’s list ‘buying indulgences or the 21st century version of it’, to ‘pay’ for their sins.

          • Wolfy32 says:

            Not to mention the power that this gave to the priests. They really had an awesome gig going… “come tell us about your ‘sins’ aka crimes and pay us to forgive them and go on your way.” Then if / when they needed something, it would be easy to say hey, if you don’t do this for us, we’ll tell everyone about that thing you paid us to make go away.

            What a beautiful thing!! The ultimate in black mail, plus getting paid to receive the black mail information in the first place!

          • Fr. James says:

            Most Protestant churches raise money to build their church buildings, so are you prepared to condemn them for that?

            Notice that an indulgence only remits the temporal punishment of sin ALREADY forgiven. So you are not buying forgiveness from sins as your quote indicates. Indulgences were granted for alms and sometimes sold in violation of our theology. I have seen preachers on TV make offers for blest prayer cloths, so I guess only Protestants sell them nowadays.

            Pope Paul VI issued a document on indulgences. I suggest you read it before you showcase more ignorance.

    • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

      Henry 1:41 “Jon, your post is pathetic with no point.”

      Where is it written my blogs have to have points? :)

      • Avatar of realist realist says:

        I’ll give you a point for that. :)

      • Henry says:

        I see no disagreement on either point by you or your piling on sidekick.

      • Fr. James says:

        The point is clear. He smears religious people by singling out the bad ones. Of course when this is done to atheists it is “unfair.” It is simple bigotry. He hates us and no disclaimer is necessary.

        • josh says:

          They’re not bad christians Fr., They’re not christians at all. They’re criminals and the servents of evil. They sneak into the churches like a thief in the night. They con the innocent and portray themselves as christians in order to get to our children and the churches resources. That’s it. The churches and it’s people are the victims here.

          • Wolfy32 says:

            Then why do churches, schools, families, and so on, hide and defend the offender?

            Is not the institution responsible for prosecuting and pursuing those that do wrong within their institution?

            Whether it’s schools or churches is irrelevent. If the institution supports protecting the children, then it needs to stop protecting and hiding it’s own from the law.

            I had contacted a public official on a story of a priest near here on why the DA wasn’t going after the priest. His response was astonishing. They’re making progress in making cases against churches, but, so far, the church is above our laws. This was a good 15 years ago, but, it was crazy astonishing to me that legally the church was untouchable. School officials, family members, etc, could all go to prison for such crimes, but church officials couldn’t. Instead church members were transferred out of the community to a different community until they got caught there.

            The other institutions were subject to Federal and state prosecution.

          • Fr. James says:

            Wolfy, schools and teacher’s unions have a shocking history of protecting abusers. Politicians are noted for it as well.

          • josh says:

            Because they have to prove the accused performed the crime. Do you think these criminals just admit that they did it? Please you’re not that naive.

        • Jinx says:

          Faker James, You’re no priest or reverend…..maybe a wanna be….and what is wrong with pointing out the bad guys. Clergy are and should be held to a higher standard and one who molests kids is total betrayal of his church, his parish and the child and his family. I do not believe you are a priest and your postings support my claim.

          • entech says:

            Interesting you should mention being held to a higher standard.
            Cardinal Pell, previously Melbourne and Sydney in Australia now promoted to the Vatican recently said in part of the recent Government inquiry into child abuse, that he did not see why the Church should be held to a higher standard but should be treated just like any one else.
            A letter to the editor agree and said yes they should not have tax exemptions and be held to the same legal requirements of reporting crimes committed by their staff instead of transferring them to re-offend and that the people doing the transferring should be charged as accessories.

          • Fr. James says:

            Indeed they are held to a higher standard, because they HAVE a standard. Atheists do not. They are uninterested in child protection. They simply want to bash religion.

            I don’t care what you believe about me.

          • Fr. James says:

            entech, legally Pell would be correct. Should we have a separate law for different kinds of people? I guess equality under the law is something you find offensive eh?

          • entech says:

            By what strange inverted reasoning do you come to the conclusion that I am offended by equality in law?
            The same laws should apply to everyone be they tax laws, crime reporting laws, no exemptions under any circumstances not even the confessional.

          • Fr. James says:

            entech, you disagree with Pell who said that we should be held to the same legal standards as everyone else. Ergo you don’t think we should be equal under the law, but that somehow we should be held to a different law.

          • entech says:

            @ 4:51 I guess as with all things your vision is constricted by your beliefs.
            If you read again you will see that the Cardinal said the bit about being treated equally and I quoted a letter agreeing and included no tax excemption etc.
            When you come up with me finding equality under the law offensive as some kind of post hoc ergo propter hoc it demonstrates your desperate need to denigrate any atheist any way possible, a sure sign of hatred.
            The real conclusion should be that “Equality under the law” excludes the special privilege some groups claim.

          • Fr. James says:

            Jon’s whole post/blog is a desperate effort to trash Christians.

            If you don’t think clergy should be equal under the law that simply illustrates that truth. You misquote Pell just because…well just because.

        • noblindersonme says:

          The point is not clear sir!
          The religious people ( who sinned as they did ) smeared themselves ! If and when ,Jon, makes a whining post about atheists being treated’ unfairly ‘ because of their crimes , I and every good person should get on Jon’s case.
          There seems to be a predominate pattern here where Fr James and Henry , for instance , are deciding in GOD’s place , what Jon , and others are thinking and passing their judgement on them.
          I think only God can look into Jon’s mind (soul) and discern what is going on. and I think GOD is far more perceptive .

          • noblindersonme says:

            Can someone here please refer me to a faction of religion , preferably Christian , where religious dogma rests primarily on focusing on the betterment of one’s own personal life and happiness , with a non judgemental obsession with how the ‘other guys ‘ in the church are behaving? This growing need by so many Christians to put ‘sinning ‘ in proper political perspective is driving me nuts!
            ” GOD -please just punish those committ those awful sins , and tell the self appointed judgers to let YOU do YOUR job!’

          • entech says:

            As you will be aware I am not a believer, but in believer terms I do think that people who claim they are doing God’s work are more than a little blasphemous, first an omnipotent God would not need help and second and mainly how do they know what work is required and what is what they themselves want.

          • Henry says:

            NBS:“Can someone here please refer me to a faction of religion , preferably Christian , where religious dogma rests primarily on focusing on the betterment of one’s own personal life and happiness , with a non judgemental obsession with how the ‘other guys ‘ in the church are behaving?”

            Sounds like a social group with happy counselors on staff, not a church. The purpose of church is for the forgiveness of sins.

            You are judging Christians to be judgmental.

          • Henry says:

            NBS:“There seems to be a predominate pattern here where Fr James and Henry , for instance , are deciding in GOD’s place , what Jon , and others are thinking and passing their judgement on them.”

            Why am I not allowed to disagree with Jon’s opinions? Instead, I am labeled “judgmental”, a term used to disable discourse to one party’s benefit.

          • Fr. James says:

            What Jon intends is quite obvious, unless you are willfully blind.

          • entech says:

            Henry, 2:42 you are free to disagree with everyone’s opinion, I am just waiting for the day when you disagree with your own, been close a couple of times.

    • Michael Ross says:

      http://drakeshelton.com/2012/01/12/the-trail-of-blood-a-short-history-of-atheist-democide/

      Mass murder can be atheist. Can be religion. It is always human nature which atheism says is basically good.

      By the way, all governments are theocracies. Its just a matter of who or what your theo (god) is, God or the state.

    • Adam Heckathorn says:

      I want to apologize I haven’t always replied to responses to comments I’ve made an oversight on My part. No matter how opposed I may be to what someone might say I deeply appreciate the opinion.

  2. entech says:

    We have had lists like this before Jon. I think it is reasonable to give updates once in a while, especially as we constantly get “The Atheist” as the Pennington statement of so many descriptions of nasty things, almost a new definition of ad hominim. And then where do you get morals without religion, is such a joke when you read these things and some of the Biblical stories.

    I might add that I am sure this is a pretty small minority, most are honest and decent with sincere ideas of the universe and its origins; just as most non-believers are!!

  3. Adam Heckathorn says:

    I looked at some of the links and read things like: He claimed that “all religions have been made by men”. But where did He claim this? Who heard Him say this? I would say that My method of coming to conclusions has lead Me to take some wrong turns. There’s a saying about data Garbage in garbage out. How We arrive at conclusions is Why the older I get the more I value education for all Children. We need critical thinking.

  4. H.P.Drifter says:

    Yes Adam, “Critical Thinking” is a must do

  5. H.P.Drifter says:

    Religion is a business always has been, money exchanges hands for one reason or another. Prey on human weakness and you will always make money. This is what religion does for better or worse. Certain groups of people do get what they want and to them it helps them to believe for whatever reason, even though there is a cost, they pay it, they gladly do it.
    Seems to reason crooked people would be drawn to a business that preys on human weakness. Like flies on fresh meat left out in the open, people are naturally vulnerable with they open up themselves to what others think, when they do not use critical thinking. Children are particularly vulnerable, because they have not developed critical thinking skills. To me personally people who take advantages of other people, by ideas or by laws that give them advantage are criminal period. There is nothing I can do about this behavior to change things. If I was a young man with the knowledge that took me a lifetime to accumulate, maybe things would be different, maybe not. Its up to each individual to make up his or her mind what kind of life they want to lead. To me organized religion is a bad idea period, one opinion among many. Giving someone absolution for criminal behavior on a weekly bases is a bad idea. Doesn’t get at the root of the problem, does not solve anything. Morals and ethics are universal in nature, no one group has a monopoly on this behavior.
    The moral high can be traveled by anybody, it is a comfortable road, a good education will get you there and keep you there, no matter how you get it. Buyer be ware should be printed on all money (caveat emptor)
    Critical thinking is not only a must, it may be the difference between a good life or a one of mental illness, or death , it’s your choice.

    H.P.D.

    • Fr. James says:

      I believe that the American Atheists is a business and O’Hare did rather well, until she was murdered for money with her family by another atheist. Mental illness? The village atheist comes to mind. Atheists have no problem taking advantage of people, see North Korea. Organized atheism seems to be a bad thing.

      Given what you say you set the scene for seizing children from Christian parents, outlawing religion, and arrest religious leaders. Sounds very much like North Korea.

      I do note that you mention morals are universal in nature. Who made them so?

      • H.P.Drifter says:

        evolution

        • Fr. James says:

          So a “universal” evolved? Then it wasn’t universal was it?

          • H.P.Drifter says:

            Fr James you don’t know crap about modern day Atheists Humanist movements your just a another stupid name caller, with a third rate education passing yourself as a superior moral authority. You and Josh both couldn’t fill out the paper work for a mail order degree without screwing it up. You guys are poster boys on why to stay to
            away from any church. Read your posts from the other day Josh, boy you are a mentally ill little sucker.

            H.P.D.

          • Fr. James says:

            I don’t know Josh.

            I do find it interesting when I encounter atheist civility. The picture of the anger bitter village atheist seems to fit.

            I am actually well educated. You just don’t like what I say and don’t know how else to respond.

          • josh says:

            “your just a another stupid name caller, with a third rate education passing yourself as a superior moral authority.” Wow! there’s the pot caling the kettle black.

          • Jinx says:

            Agree HPD, I call him Faker James!!!

          • Henry says:

            More atheist “insight”. From the fallacy files.

          • entech says:

            Henry, suitably ambiguous again. Are you supporting the good Father or simply another chance to attack “The Atheist”.

          • StanB says:

            Goodness, what hate from a tolerance demanding free thinker. Hahahahaha!

          • entech says:

            Stan, don’t feel the need to join in, you know better.

          • StanB says:

            BS Entech, the freethinkers in here are haters and intolerant of ANYONE who is a believer….

          • entech says:

            Stan, I didn’t have you down as one of the extremists.
            Your F.James does a pretty good imitation of someone incredibly hate filled, practically every second word he uses is hate.
            Do you say everyone that is not a Christian and posts here actually hates Christians?
            You are certainly wrong about me, but you can think that if you like.
            To take it further what I get from f.James is that every Christian who is not Catholic hates Catholics as well.
            Is that true? do you think that as well?

            Why do you think disagreement is hate?

          • Fr. James says:

            entech, no one hates better then a secularist.

          • entech says:

            I am not sure about that, the main stream (whatever that means) Christians are pretty hard to beat when it comes to the attitude to Jehovah’s Witnesses and unitarians, in fact almost any denomination except their own.

          • Fr. James says:

            entech, that is strange since I have not heard any homilies on hating others the whole time I have been a Christian. But I see plenty of evidence of atheist hatred of us.

    • Adam Heckathorn says:

      H.P.D. I appreciate Your fleshing out My statement about critical thinking and the value of education. I do believe there are good people in all religions but what is “good” but My opinion affected by My experience, education or lack of, the culture I was brought up with,and other factors. In the end I think it would be beneficial to agree on basic Human Rights and not let religion or philosophy dehumanize and take those rights away from Anyone.

  6. Fr. James says:

    Jon, I am afraid that I no longer think you are of good will. Beneath the occasionally polite exterior, once it is pierced, is a scalding lava of pure hatred. You show that in your snide and arrogant remarks about religious people. It is very disappointing. If you had done this as mayor you would have been run out of office, so I can only believe that you deceived us while you were mayor. I know, a politician who lies, who would have imagined it. I could of course list all the politicians who have been involved in sex scandals. That of course would taint you wouldn’t it? Despite any disclaimer to the contrary.

    I could also list teachers, coaches, atheists, freethinkers, secularists etc. who have been guilty of similar or worse crimes and in greater numbers. Thereby implying that such people are vile creatures unfit for society. I could mention, again, Stalin 30 million murdered, Mao 50 million murdered as fine examples of atheists.

    At least those religious leaders violated the moral code of their faith. With atheists, and their lack of any moral code, there is nothing to violate. When you have no standards there are none to fall short of. Atheists can do no wrong since they don’t believe in right or wrong. You may disagree, but it is clear you lied to the people of Fargo about your real opinions. I think you would have no problem lying now. You know those politicians eh? And if I added a faux “disclaimer” would it really make any difference?

    • Wolfy32 says:

      With atheists, and their lack of any moral code, there is nothing to violate.

      Though, I don’t consider myself an Athiest, nor do I consider myself a believer in tenets of organized religion, I tend to disagree with this still. And will until I die. There’s lots to violate or everyone would be out committing crimes… “The Purge” Hollywood movie where 1 day a year murder is legal, would become reality. The vatican had a military, most likely has many ties to global sex slavery (not to target the vatican, what entities anymore don’t have ties to sexual slavery? ) and that’s our world in a nutshell.

      Jon’s point as I apply it to my own views and filters of life is not so much to target the religious. But, to let you know that despite your faith and all it has to offer, You , father, are still human, with human needs, human desires, yes, even you have sexual tendencies.

      I once asked a good friend of mine that’s a devout freethinking catholic (doesn’t buy into everything the church says). I said, so, what’s with the priests… Don’t they have sexual desires too, or how are they celibate. She responded with, well, I don’t know, I never thought of them that way…

      I lost a little respect for that person being a freethinking individual. Some how the priesthood has everyone duped into thinking they’re not human and don’t have any sexual desires that the rest of the entire human population was born with.

      So, yeah, I’m with Jon in that, we want the priests to be honest with us. Yes, it’s a little misguided to only list what ‘bad’ priests have done. I thought that wasn’t right unless he listed all the teachers and all the other groups of people that do horrendous things on this planet.

      However, many of the other groups (such as family members) etc, are believed to have sexual desires and believed to be human. It is only the priests of the church that the public has somehow been duped into believing that priests are super human and don’t have any form of sexuality anymore. Leaving their families vulnerable victoms to those that they never thought of once having any sexual desires.

      The church could come clean and say hey, our priests, even our pope, is all human and have human needs.. From this day forward, they are all considered human and we acknowledge their human needs for sex.. It is now legal for all of these orders to engage in sexual practices that does not harm others.

      Imagine how freeing that would be?? Not having to carry out one’s desires in a closet somewhere! How much does that pressure put on one to keep things so hidden that it leads them to using kids instead of with consenting adults?

      It’s too bad really, that the church has to lie to itself. And you wonder why people are losing faith in the church? I have no respect for the church, until it’s people can tell me they they are no different than me and I am no different than them our quest to live our lives for a real God, then, the church has done nothing to earn anyone’s respect, trust, or any reason to believe in the church.

      The church has betrayed it’s people and hopes that people continue in their dubious glazed over phase. More and more people are waking up and realizing the church has pulled the wool on them. Thinking that the priests are people above basic human needs.

    • Fr. James says:

      Wolfy, the Vatican has 100 Swiss Guards, the UN Peacekeepers have a long history of global sex slavery.

      Of course he is targeting religious people! He is targeting me personally. And he knows it. It is just another insult and a fully intended one.

      Yes, sexual tendencies exist and are real. In this case though he is implying that religion and or celibacy are the cause of abuse, despite all the facts to the contrary. If that was the case then ONLY priests would abuse children. So are teachers required to be celibate? If not, then why do they in fact have a higher percentage of abusers in their ranks? This is simply bigotry toward priests.

      It ignores the FACT that homosexuals are the major offenders. We have indeed come clean and have rules prohibiting the ordination of homosexuals. The safest place for a child now is the Catholic Church. I wish other entities would follow suit.

      The lie here is the false view of the Church you have been fed. One that Jon is promulgating with glee. You see, if you can create this myth about priests then it is easier to hate them and to agree that persecuting them is a good thing. Don’t be fooled. Jon and his cohorts could care less about children.

      • Wolfy32 says:

        Heh, Jon, I suspect, just wants more posts on his blog. Hence the controversial topics.. I agree 100% celibacy is not the cause of pediophilia. Nor is homosexuality. You’re wrong on both accounts. Pediophilia and rape (more or less the same thing) have little do with sexuality of any type. Hetero or gay. It is about power and dominance over someone else.

        That’s also why it usually occurs with trusted (blindly or otherwise) people in positions of power. I’m an adjunct university professor and I’m very aware of the dangers of abuse of authority or even the accusation of the abuse of authority.

        It has nothing to do with sex and everything to do with someone feeling powerful by dominating someone else. That’s what it boils down to.

        As to the priesthood, nah, the church hasn’t allowed priests to marry or even condoned sexual relations of any type. You obviously still bash gays by having the ridiculous thinking that gays are the only child predators. Right… Keep drinking that koolaid…

        • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

          Wolfy32 6:16 “That’s also why it usually occurs with trusted people in positions of power…Nothing to do with sex..everthing to do with someone feeling powerful..

          Exactly, its not about heterosexuality or homosexualty. Fr. James’ statement homosexuals are “the major problem” is quite ridiculous.

          There was a study done several years ago in Colorado. The researcher did her best to establish the homo or heterosexualtiy of men convicted of sex crimes against children. She found homosexuals under respresented among those convicted. Now, there is always the question of whether or not anyone can find the true sexual orientation of others, but that’s what she found.

          • Fr. James says:

            Jon, over 85% of the offenders were homosexuals. That’s what we found. I guess you don’t care enough about children to face that fact.

          • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

            Fr. James 6:55 “Jon, over 85% of the offenders were homosexuals. That’s what we found.”

            Who is “we”? Did you do a peer reviewed study?

            I’m hoping you might be interested enough in this topic to read about it. Homosexuality, heterosexuality and pedophilia are separate behaviors. We priest prey on young boys, probably they are not homosexuals. The study in Colorado I referred to inquired of men convicted of sex crimes with children about their domestic life and sexual preferences other than children. As I wrote earlier, nearly all were attracted to the opposite sex, except for their attraction to same sex children.

            As a very simple introduction to pedophilia is the link below. I hope you have not been instructing others that pedophilia and homosexuality and heterosexuality are all the same thing:

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

          • Fr. James says:

            Jon, we did a study that is the most extensive so far. I don’t think wikipedia is peer reviewed research.

            You opened the can of worms. You don’t mind smearing priests. So how can you mind it when I point out who the real offenders are?

          • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

            Fr. James 6:18 “Jon, we did a study that is the most extensive so far.”

            This is my second request that you reveal the “research” you refer to validating your ridiculous claim the majority of child molesters are homosexual. It you are going to claim “research finds” please be ethical enough to reveal it to us.

            I know of no research making the claim you make. Child molesters do not tend to be homosexual. This is the rather long standing consensus of people who study this. I Googled up the words, “Homosexuality Podophilia” and am posting a link to the first article that came up. It is from the University of California-Davis. It explains the difficulty, which I mentioned in an early post, of studying an area where secrecy and facade are common. Nevertheless, it concludes, as do all other professional research observations I know of, there is not a relationship to child molestation and homosexuality. Adult men who molest male children almost always are attracted toward adult females. One would guess the proportion of gay child molesters might be about equal between heterosexual and homosexuals, but in research where people report their sexual orientation homosexuals are under represented.

            The article also corrects the way I have been using these terms. Podophilia is used to describe people with attraction to children. Only a few people with this attraction act on it and commit crimes against children. Thus, child molesters should be separated from the podophilia population in general.

          • entech says:

            What is “interesting” about a couple of obviously mentally disturbed (don’t know the technical terms psychotic etc.) people. That they were lesbians, the man in Austria that enslaved and impregnated his daughter for over twenty years was not a lesbian but still a mad man. Is it supposed to make a case for or against something, or, just an indication that you have morbid interests probably exacerbated by a lifetime contemplating “sin”.

          • Fr. James says:

            Jon, I realize that the truth is difficult for you. The Catholic Church commissioned a report, the John Jay report. It showed over 85% of offenses were of post pubescent males by other males. This is homosexuality. Homosexuals have consistently tried to lower ages of consent. As I point out, Dawkins an atheist leader, seems rather understanding of pedophilia. These are facts, unpleasant ones for you. You brought all this up, so you need to follow it all the way to the truth. Or don’t you really care about children? Let’s say I am correct, would you then agree that homosexuals should be carefully vetted in order to protect children?

          • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

            Fr. James 5:01 “..John Jay report. It showed over 855 of offenses were of post pubescent males by other males. This is homosexuality.”

            No it is not. At least not as defined by a consensus in the field as outlined in the Un of CA–Davis link I posted.

            Also, it does not say this in the John Jay report. The link below sites the John Jay report saying homosexuality had little role in the sex abuse scandal of the Catholic Church.

            http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=18005

          • Fr. James says:

            entech. Interesting. Jon does this to us and you have no problem with it. Thanks for showing us once again the double standard at work.

          • Fr. James says:

            Jon, you are in denial. You simply can’t admit that homosexuality was the cause because that undermines the political correctness that guides your life. You don’t even care about the kids enough to face the truth.

          • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

            Fr. James 4:24 “Jon, you are in denial. You simply can’t admit that homosexualtiy was the cause (of preist and other sexual abuse of children) because that undermines the politcal correctness that guides your life. You don’t even care about the kids enough to face the truth.”

            I’m afraid, even concerned, you know so little about these concepts you are completely disconnected from the professional community which studies these behaviors. I would guess the counceling, psychology departments, etc,. of every single Catholic research university in the United States, the Notre Dames, etc., see the issue the way I do. I would challenge you to find one which agrees with you that confirmed child molesters are 60% homosexual.

            You have already implied the John Jay report said something different than what it actually said.

        • Fr. James says:

          He probably does want more posts. But it also has to do with unabashed hatred of religious people.

          These crimes also have nothing to do with religion or celibacy or the priesthood. The one thing they seem to have in common is homosexuality. No koolaid.

        • josh says:

          That excuse that it’s not about the sex and that it’s about power is the B.S. excuse the homosexuals use to point the gun away from them. Tell me? When you’re having sex is it about power too you? I don’t think so, and it’s not for them either. It’s about filling their selfish need for perveted sex and they’ll stop at nothing to get it.

          • entech says:

            Men are hardwired to assault the gates. It’s what we do. Woman are the gatekeepers. It their job to protect the gates. It’s what they do
            This certainly sounds as if it is the thought of someone who thinks in terms power, “attack”. It sounds like someone who without the fear of god would be out raping and pillaging for all he was worth.

    • Fr. James says:

      I notice that Jon will not respond to this. Coward.

      • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

        Fr. James 6:59 “I notice that Jon will not respond to this. Coward.”

        That’s correct, I’m a coward. I’ve been in front of the public for 40 some years and received plenty of criticism for expressing my views on various things. Guess what? Some people don’t like them.

        • Fr. James says:

          You did NOT express these views publicly when you were mayor. You deceived us. Did you call clergy pedophiles back in the day? No. You lied.

          • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

            Fr. James 6:19 “You deceived us. Did you call clergy pedophiles back in the day? No. You lied.”

            I did not call clergy pedophiles back in the day. I also have never done so here or anywhere else. Please don’t imply say or imply I have written things that I have not. Thank you.

          • Fr. James says:

            Jon, Bull! That is EXACTLY what you are doing here. We both know that. Don’t play these little pretend games. You imply that which is why you posted it. You try to be deceive us further by your “disclaimer.” You would never have been mayor if you had done this back then and you know it.

  7. Fr. James says:

    Here Dawkins, the Pope of the atheists, downplays pedophilia. I guess some abuse is more equal then others eh? Atheists only seem interested when abuse involves a religious perpetrator. Otherwise then don’t “lump it all in the same bracket.” They don’t really care about abuse or children for that matter.

    http://www.richarddawkins.net/news_articles/2013/9/7/dawkins-under-attack-for-his-lenient-view-of-mild-sex-abuse-the-times#

    • Michael Ross says:

      Try googling this “pedophilia caused by a gene:

      https://www.google.com/#q=pedopilia+caused+by+gene

      See if it gives us a clue as to where sexual “liberation” is taking us next.

      • Fr. James says:

        Actually we found the vast majority of cases were related to homosexuals abusing post-pubescent males. Something that the media has adroitly covered up. As I said, they are not interested in protecting children.

        • Wolfy32 says:

          I read stories where parents gave up their daughters to the church, to be used in God’s service… They were used all right… Not for God though…

        • Avatar of realist realist says:

          But 15 year olds are fair game? Or even 16-21 year olds. Why are you making excuses for this behavior? What aren’t you telling us?

          • Fr. James says:

            It is homosexuals and atheists who are excusing the behavior. We consider it morally wrong. They apparently do not in all cases. What does that tell you?

          • Wolfy32 says:

            Sorry James, you have no offense here.

            You’re twisting the words to mean what you want them to. Jon is excusing molestors and child rapists? Really? Just because he didn’t call out the other groups that means he doesn’t condone the church’s history of child rape, but, he condones everyone elses.

            Even you have more intelligence than that.. What a very sad arguement that you’d think that of any of us… Wow.

          • josh says:

            See your big mistake wolfy is that you’re saying it’s the churches fault and and the fault of christians. what you fail to understand is that these pedophiles and homosexulas were never part of the church. They pretended to be so in order to get at the children. So quit blaming the church. It’s lie blaming the phone company for phone scammers. They’re just secretly using the church in order to perform their twisted crimes.

          • Wolfy32 says:

            If you saw my previous post, I wasn’t blaming the church either. I agree. It’s not just in the church, it’s where ever adults have power / influence, admiration, and / or authority over a child. Doesn’t matter if it’s in church or not.
            Nor does it matter if the person’s gay or not.

            Blaming homosexuals is no different than us blaming the church, it just isn’t the case.. It’s about dominance and authority, nothing to do with sexual orientation.

          • Wolfy32 says:

            p.s. Sorry Josh, no mistake made on my part.
            You’re assumption was premature and a false characterization of me.

          • Fr. James says:

            Wolfy, how can Jon complain that I am being unfair? He doesn’t care about child abuse. He cares about smearing Catholics. You still think this is about abuse. It isn’t. That is NOT his point. One only need look at the textbooks from Germany back in the 30′s and see how Jews were characterized in a similar way. It is a way of dehumanizing us and making us easier to hate.

          • entech says:

            One only need look at the textbooks from Germany back in the 30?s and see how Jews were characterized in a similar way.
            And where did they get there inspiration from?
            Luther and St.Paul – the Nazis were just carrying on an old Christian tradition.

            As I said in another post this business of normal and natural marriage and similar talk all ties in with demonizing the Homosexuals, a step on the way to slaughter them in the name of god. The pot meets the kettle :)

          • Fr. James says:

            entech, actually they were national socialists who hated all religion. They had modern scientific ideas about the human race, without God.

          • entech says:

            And old fashioned ideas about the evil that is Judaism, those Christ Killers. Last sentence of chapter two of Mein Kampf says that Hitler thought he was doing God’s work destroying the Jews.

          • Fr. James says:

            entech, I know this will shock you, but Hitler was a liar. In private he expressed his hatred of Christianity. He sounded like so many atheists do today.

          • entech says:

            Hitler like so many others was a raving lunatic (probably a bit more scientific explanation available). What he said, did not say is eclipsed by what he did, he killed lots of fellow human beings for an ideology, just as the inquisition did, just as Pol Pot did, just as Genghis Kahn did, Just as Richard the Lionheart did and Saladin.
            Crazy people do crazy things, it does not matter whether they are doing it for a religious ideology, an anti-religious ideology or just for personal glory like the family that have been dominating N.Korea.
            The thing to remember is that there is only one race and that is the human race, we are all part of it, all equal in the sight of whatever criterion we put up for comparison.

          • Fr. James says:

            entech, suddenly you agree that people do bad things and that one cannot blame Christians for it.

  8. josh says:

    B.S. It has everything to do with sexual orientation. The overwhelming cases of pedophile attacks are against boys. Again it’s not the churches history as you have said. It’s pedophiles and homosexulas who have attacked children within the confines of a church.

  9. H.P.Drifter says:

    What a couple of dummies Josh and Fr. James, evolution is universal, I think you two should hook-up and play “a Man’s gotta do, what a mans gotta do” to quote Josh, Fr James can play the “Gate Keeper”. I am sure you are familiar with the the rule. Blaming Atheists for bad doing in the Church is just twisting words, Atheists do not condone this type of behavior happening in the church. Its your own Church clean up your own back yard. Leave the Atheists out of Church business. Wolfy you should know better to assume Atheists would ignore this type of behavior. As a non believer I would be the first to call the cops if this kind of behavior was to become known to me. Wolfy you are right about the power trip though, Josh and Fr James are both on a power trip and that’s no BS.

    H.P.D.

    • Fr. James says:

      You don’t understand. If morals evolved then there was a time they were not universal. Morality is not tied to evolution. Must be your lack of education holding you pack from understanding.

      Jon started this post attacking the Church. That leaves atheists open to the same charges. You should stay out of our business then don’t you think?

      I don’t know what kind of power you think I wield since this is not my blog. And please refer to what I say separately. I am not Josh. I answer only for my own posts.

      • H.P.D. says:

        Back is spelled with B not P grammar mistakes are many on the blog, P is nowhere B on the keyboard, you sound just like another drunk.
        I understand very well you and Josh are short changed upstairs.

        • StanB says:

          Grammar nazi too? Have you ever heard of autocorrect? Ever seen what it can do to some words? When losing an argument make attacks on spelling and grammar, but never point out the errors done by those on YOUR side….Jon himself never proofs his blog and has plenty of errors, polite people read through them and don’t use them for attacks…

          • entech says:

            If you only knew how often I cringe as my finger leaves the enter key, even before seeing the things I never meant.

            Auto-correct is a device of the Devil.

          • H.P.D. says:

            Stan, I only do that when somebody acts like a complete idiot, Josh and Fr James, have been acting like idiots for the last few days, insulting people, somebody has to call them on their BS, in this case it just happen to be me. Take care
            H.P.D

          • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

            Stan 12:12 “Jon himself never proofs his blog and has plenty of errors.”

            I do proof them, but a dyslexia problem prevents me from seeing many mistakes. Strangest thing, the next day I see them–thanks for tollerating my mistakes.

          • StanB says:

            I use an IPHONE, and have fat fingers…HP, seems a bit of projection going on here, insults fly BOTH ways and you are not innocent of starting them…..

        • Fr. James says:

          So a typo is more important then content. I guess that means you can’t respond to what I said.

          • entech says:

            In your case there is not much difference, a typo is an accidental mistake, the content is an ordinary mistake. But I forgive you, you can’t help your upbringing :evil:

          • Fr. James says:

            It is always easier to correct spelling then thinking, but I am trying with you. You can lead an atheist to the truth, but you can’t make him think.

          • Henry says:

            FJ:“You can lead an atheist to the truth, but you can’t make him think.”

            Yes, that is very unfortunate. However, you have the honors of the quote of the day.

      • Avatar of realist realist says:

        “You should stay out of our business” says the man who is posting on a freethinkers blog. What?

        • entech says:

          Realist, if all the despisers of atheists stayed away, if they just treated us with ignore we would have no one to talk but ourselves. Short conversation, “yes I agree”.

          Obviously they need us to exist, someone they can say is so wrong and justify the beliefs they hold, with no opposition they might have to think about it, and they know deep down that that would be a catastrophe.

          • Henry says:

            entech:“Obviously they need us to exist,…”

            The atheist’s self-importance must be upheld. This is what “reason” has brought us.

          • entech says:

            Perhaps I better rephrase that a little bit given you propensity to interpret everything in your own idiosyncratic manner.

            If “The Atheist” did not exist as a target they would have to spend more time defending themselves against each other. That would not be good because the defenders would have to think about what they say in reply to what has been said. A free ranging thought process would not be good for closed minds.

          • Henry says:

            Not good for closed minds? I thought your 11:56 hypothetical, first sentence indicated the atheist did not exist. If that hypothetical were the case, there would be no closed minds.

          • entech says:

            12:50 What on earth was that supposed to mean.

            The first sentence in my 11:56 if they just treated us with ignore what is hypothetical about that, “if you stayed away we would have no one to discuss things with”.

            The only thing hypothetical about all this, the reason there are atheists, the god hypothesis is probably wrong

          • Henry says:

            You are confounded by the reality atheists have closed minds.

        • Fr. James says:

          I didn’t realize this blog was restricted only to atheists. I can understand. The last thing you want is for someone to point out your errors.

    • josh says:

      The only thing you’re good for is name calling. I have you on ignore function from now on.

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