New Pope Creates a False Illusion.

Pope Francis so dominates the media, the impression is created of a Pope taking the Church somewhere.  Further, wherever he takes the Church, the impression is masses of Catholics will follow. He has created the illusion of change.

Rome controls huge amounts of money and the Pope makes appointments.  Still he is not the Church’s most powerful force.  The most powerful source are the people in the pews.  Today, they remain divided on all kinds of issues.  This Pope, and the next, will not resolve these disagreements.

We can start with gay marriage.  Surely members of the Catholic church do not differ much from citizenry at large where the majority now supports gay marriage. There appears no way for the Church’s bureaucracy to change.

Does anyone believe the 95%+ of Catholics who use birth control are going to stop because the love this Pope so much?  And, will birth control policy be changed by this Pope? Negative on both counts.

Ultimately, those in the pews will determine what the Catholic Church’s representatives of God will decide.  But for now, there is no mechanism to resolve the unresolvable differences.

The previous Pope seemed to think he had the answer.  Dump those parts of the church that did not conform–leave a smaller but unified church.  That was unsuccessful.

The liberal wing of the Church waited and waited for a path toward change.  Now, conservatives are waiting to take things back.

When the folks in the pews unite so it will be with the Church.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2014/03/pope_francis_at_one_year_why_intense_focus_on_the_papacy_is_bad_for_the.html

Avatar of Jon Lindgren

About Jon Lindgren

I am a former President of the Red River Freethinkers in Fargo, ND, a retired NDSU economics professor and was Mayor of Fargo for 16 years. There is more about me at Wikipedia.com.
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33 Responses to New Pope Creates a False Illusion.

  1. entech says:

    Jon, while I agree with everything you say I thought I might get this one in first, before all the attack for the sake of it mob.
    illusion n
    1. a false appearance or deceptive impression of reality:
    2. a false or misleading perception or belief; delusion:
    Aren’t all illusions false. So many ministers for example give the impression of being good , honest, god fearing – and so on; don’t we frequently find that it is all an illusion to hide self interest and licentious behaviour.

    Religion itself if largely illusory.

  2. Michael Ross says:

    “The most powerful source are the people in the pews.”

    That is as it should be. But the Pope has influence. The last three Popes have been opposed to America’s aggressive foreign policy. I just wish they would be more outspoken. They are almost mute on the subject. The establishment is pro-war and the Popes don’t wish to confront the establishment. Jon is opposed to America’s offensive wars but seldom mentions the matter. He does not want to confront the establishment. Too bad Jon is not a Catholic. He would make a great pope. He loves “gay marriage” and so does the establishment. That, I believe, is why he harps on it constantly.

    • entech says:

      Too bad Jon is not a Catholic. He would make a great pope.
      Fascinating thoughts you bring into my little mind Michael. This one has me speculating to myself, we know there have been popes that didn’t live up to all that they should. The stories about evil popes and so on are most likely mostly conspiracy theories like the survival of Adolph, doubtful that even a modest percentage are totally true; no my speculation is in how many were secretly non-believers? after all if anyone should know the truth it would be the one that claims direct succession, that would be the one to whom truth would be revealed. But perhaps it is true that “revealed truth” is Papal Code for I made it up.

      • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

        entech 1:17 “…perhaps it is true that ‘revealed truth is Papal Code for ‘I made it up.’”

        Excellent. We don’t have any other source for “revealed truth” except “I made it up.”

        • Adam Heckathorn says:

          The point was made on the blog that the easiest one to deceive is Yourself. I would be surprised to find most Religious Leaders really had no faith but certainly some have come to realize “This can’t possibly be true” and continued on anyway.

          • Avatar of realist realist says:

            Maybe not continued on, but, instead, quit the priesthood and got married. At the very least, you might as well stay warm at night. :)

      • David says:

        I think that’s probably the hardest thing for an atheist to believe is that the leaders of religion actually believe in the religion. I think they do.

  3. H.P.Drifter says:

    Really hard to understand why people are so easily influenced, so far this guy is smoke and all mirrors, nothing has changed in the church. Change one group of thieves for another. The sex things seems to be endemic to the faith. People that take that leap of faith seem to lose their marbles every time they do it. Lemmings over the cliff, with any ability to reason how somebody can buy into the BS is beyond me. And they think their faith keeps them safe is even more absurd. Maybe they should all go to work for Disney Enterprises. Jon nice job answering that idiot yesterday concerning the morals issues concerning Atheists or to me non believers. Yes, we non believers act in our own self interest to be straight with people and moral it is the easy way forward, you have no regrets. The Christians just don’t get it, screw up and absolution is around the corner, hog wash to say the least. Josh and Henry sound more like Christian Identity movement followers with each new post, disgusting really. More people need to call them on their outrageous BS. Lucky we have Entec who takes the time to step on their heads now and then.

    H.P.D.

    • Adam Heckathorn says:

      I also appreciate Entechs comments. Thought and Reason how can one really have a problem with that?

      • H.P.Drifter says:

        Only if your Christian thought and reason fly out the window. They do not think when have a problem, its god’s will or consult the bible as to what they did wrong. Only through thinking and reason can you solve issues important to you

      • David says:

        Funny – I thought that was one of Pope Benedict’s themes when several Muslims were outraged.

    • Henry says:

      HP:” Josh and Henry sound more like Christian Identity movement followers with each new post, disgusting really.”

      Your reading comprehension is terrible, even if you were to understand blog threading and nesting. Your accusation is BS. Please give us a citation that would indicate I am in the CI movement.

      Adam, HP just slandered my character. You in the past indicated your hypersensitivity to this action. Sic em!

      • H.P.Drifter says:

        What Charactor?

        • Henry says:

          You couldn’t do it. All talk and BS. No reason and facts. All emotion. You make your atheist brethren proud.

      • Henry says:

        Adam? Help! I don’t really need yours, but the thought would be nice. I would hate for you to have an unfulfilled vow.

        • Adam Heckathorn says:

          Well Henry I’ve had My good laugh for today and I thank You! I honestly don’t know anything about Christian Identity movement but if You say Your not part of it I say innocent until proven guilty!

  4. H.P.Drifter says:

    Sounds like you are talking about yourself

  5. Fr. James says:

    I think Jon simply doesn’t understand Catholicism. He is correct that our doctrines will not and cannot change. That is because they are true. It doesn’t matter if large numbers of Catholics don’t understand or even reject them. Truth is truth and is not decided by a mere vote. Divine law is irreformable. That is where the real power lies.

    Unfortunately Jon also plays the usual card of claiming Rome is “rich” when in fact most of its wealthy is art and architecture that cannot be realized actually. In fact it costs much money just to maintain them. Is there any way you can refrain from these canards?

    • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

      Fr. James 8:19 “…claiming Rome is “rich” when.. most of its wealth is art and architecture and cannot be realized actually.”

      I’d like to know a.) if there is documentation that most of its wealth is art and archetecture and b.) it cannot be sold. I’ve never heard of something called valuable that cannot be sold.

      • Fr. James says:

        Perhaps you could give documentation to show what the actually movable wealth of the Church is? In fact the budget of the Vatican is less then the budget of the Archdiocese of New York. The art collection is valued at one euro because it is priceless. The Italian Republic would never permit the art to be sold, owned by the Vatican or not, and moved out of the country. It is held in trust for the world.

        The statue of liberty is valuable given current copper values. Do you advocate melting it down and selling it to raise money? Should we auction of the Smithsonian collections? Please refrain from the tired old canards.

    • Wolfy32 says:

      I don’t know of many non proffit organizations aside from the catholic church that has the funds on hand to shell out millions and into the billions of dollars to hire defense attorneys to defend Priests within it’s priesthood.

      If an organization has billions to pay out for defense to protect its own… Well, I guess I have a tough time believing they’re a poor organization hurting for money. Their actions may be causing them to be hurting for money, but, they have the money to shell out so far…

      • Fr. James says:

        Much of that comes from insurance. Also priests have to hire their own attorneys. You obviously haven’t noticed the massive number of teacher abuse and the schools that have to pay out millions. Or their unions who defend them to the hilt. In addition the Church does not pool its money in one location. I diocese in India can’t draw money from the Vatican or a diocese in the US. Basically you don’t know what you are talking about.

  6. Wolfy32 says:

    I’ve never understood why the pope/ vatican exists. To this day, it is largely human and self serving. Christ’s example was not to setup temple for people to come to and admire. His example was to live off the land and bring himself to the people.

    If were a strong believer of the bible I would definately see the vatican as a blasphemy against God and all that Christ had tried to teach us. (Then again Christ would have issue with many if not all of the churches in existence today… Not just the catholic nation.)

    • Fr. James says:

      Spoken like a true bigot. Why do we have a pope? Because Jesus gave us one, see Matt. 16:18ff. I doubt you live off the land and I assume you live in a house. I expect you are not like Mother Teresa. But since you don’t believe in the Bible why concern yourself with us? I guess some just love to hate us.

  7. BoBoiBoy says:

    I’ve been personally researching religions / Christianity and all the information from any source I could find anywhere. Books first, then the Internet and next whatever means that presents it’s self. However there’s really not much left that hasn’t already been reveled. The worse I found is The Vatican and it does have wealth in Gold Silver and no doubt the stock market and no telling how much real estate Worldwide. It’s hold-ens are not hard to dig up ‘SMUT’ on for being the smallest nation in the World. The smallest nation and the most wealthy
    Conclusion: Except for it’s wealth and power because our ‘American President, visiting the Pope / Papa or is going to or already has, and no doubt plotting how they are going to screw the Worlds population, and make more slaves to the system than it already is:…. Except for the content of explanation above….
    It’s all BS.

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