Christmas Would Be a Good Time for the Faithful to Stop Demonizing.

Demonizing is the least attractive characteristic of the Christian or any other faith.  Pointing fingers at some group and giving it the label of sinner does not go unnoticed and hurts the faith’s message.  I know it is not everyone in the faith who does this, just too many.

The two most popular demonizations are of gays and of women who need abortions.  The link is by an orthodox rabbi but his thinking seems applicable to Christianity as well.

When I issued the first Gay Awareness Proclamation, I received a letter from a prominent journalist in our community.  He wrote that since homosexuality was condemned by both the Christian and Jewish faith communities, I as a Mayor should not speak in favor of homosexuals.

He, even though a journalist, had not done his homework.  Homosexuality is not condemned universally by both faiths.  The parts that do condemn should stop it this Christmas.

Abortion is another place some of the faithful could help their cause this Christmas.  They should mind their own business and decide it is not their duty to make decisions for others.

Abortions have been performed since the beginning of human history it is believed.  About the same number are performed now as was the case before Roe v Wade.

Abortions are performed because women, and often the men in their lives, see no other choice.  So, this Christmas would be a nice time for anti abortion activists to stop demonizing women and their doctors.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-shmuly-yanklowitz/orthodox-rabbi-gay-marriage_b_4452154.html

 

Avatar of Jon Lindgren

About Jon Lindgren

I am a former President of the Red River Freethinkers in Fargo, ND, a retired NDSU economics professor and was Mayor of Fargo for 16 years.
This entry was posted in Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink.

55 Responses to Christmas Would Be a Good Time for the Faithful to Stop Demonizing.

  1. Brad Campbell says:

    Pot/kettle.

    LGBT groups need to do exactly the same thing.

    • entech says:

      That would be good Brad. If everyone could forget all the shinola and realise that we are all just people, all just part of the human race in all its diversity. A good start would be for Christians (and others) to stop calling homosexuals an abomination or worse, then homosexuals could stop saying that Christians (and others) were hate mongers.

    • Formerly Fargo Bob says:

      Yes, because we have such a long record of denying opposite-sex couples the right to marry, firing heterosexuals for their sexual orientation, refusing to bake cakes for their wedding celebrations and driving young heterosexuals to suicide because of who they feel attracted to.

  2. June says:

    I thought that women made their OWN decision when they allowed or participated in sex without making the decision to use birth control !!

    And Christmas might just be a good time for you to do your part to uphold some small shred of the moral climate in this community. Clearly those who follow religious customs and oppose the destruction of human life contribute a more moral structure to the community. And because you can not see a human is involved in an abortion does not make it so.

    • josh says:

      Right on June!

      • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

        josh 3:09 Related to our earlier discussion, I just received a request from Tony Perkins and his Family Reseach Council. He only needs a tiny $3.2 million this year. I know you will send the poor fellow some money.

        • josh says:

          John I hear the RRWC needs more saline solution, high suction dismembering tools, skewers, and methotrexate to kill more babies. Why don’t you go buy them some.

    • entech says:

      In an ideal world that would be the perfect solution. Education would be a good start, obviously “abstinence alone” is not the answer, there are just as many religious leaders that get into problems because of their genitals as any one else.
      Nice to see someone advising birth control, usually when birth control is part of a topic someone will almost immediately equate it with abortion, and away we go.
      We really need to know why nature, or whatever, or whoever would make the drive to procreate so strong, so compelling and so pleasurable.

      • Dan says:

        You can get free birth control if you pick a government health care plan. And if you act now, Obama will also throw in a free cell phone. Its a deal you just can’t say no to. And ITS ALL FREE!!! The dims really care about your health and they need young people to sign up today so that the boomers can get cheap government care. It’s all rainbows and lolly-pops.

        How can a generation of young people just stand by and let the government screw them so badly? It’s sad but amusing at the same time. Better them than me.

    • Jinx says:

      “I thought women made their own decisions when they allowed or participated in sex without birth control.”

      Except for stranger rape, date rape and rape by relative: oh, lets not forget child rape.

  3. Michael Ross says:

    “The two most popular demonizations are of gays and of women who need abortions. ”

    Soon the only two rights we will have left is to sodomize and abort. I think the Duck Dynasty episode has shown us who is demonizing who. Gays, atheists, and other liberals are the intolerant ones. Express an opinion that is contrary to theirs and lose your job.

    • Brad Campbell says:

      Agree 100%

      Check out Piers Morgan’s tweets on the subject. He is the intolerant bigot.

      What is happening to the Duck Dynasty star is what is happening to others with his Christian view. Get labeled as an intolerant bigot because you do not agree with the liberal, gay agenda.

      Good for Phil. Gay groups don’t like what he believes then so what. Get over it. Don’t watch the show. I applaud him.

      • noblindersonme says:

        “His” Christian view. HIS view Brad. Focus! I am a Christain ! Many more Christians view him as the abhorant one for his narrow mindedness AND his jaw dropping racial thoughts!
        This duck dynasty fiasco does not prove that those who find HIS views intolerant represent all the usual suspects the right likes to hate and brand as Heathens! ( or the equivalent the fools like Rush or Palin like to trot out whenever they need to jump into the spotlight).
        I will stand up MY Christianity to Mr Phil’s anyday! My views are closer to the words of Jesus and the Pope’s for instance , and if you don’t like that , what the majority of Christians believe, than as you said ” Don’t watch our show!’.
        By the way . I grew up in the 60′s , I did not travel through that time drunk stoned and stupid! Even in North Dakota I knew the black man sufferred incredible injustices . I did not grow up to be an old man in stupid denial thinking those days were just fine and dandy!!! ( paraphrasing the Duckmiester – the blacks did not experience hard times then, They were better off pre civil rights, they were heppy heppy heppy !)
        Brad -you want to applaud that idiot -go ahead ! I wonder how you feel about a good Christain like me who did not waste his youth and rot his brain and stood up to the bigots then . Damn my Christainity must really bother you!

        • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

          noblinder 1:11 I was hoping someone would write such a post.

        • Wolfy32 says:

          I agree with you noblinders. I sadly feel ostracized from Christianity by the insane beliefs Christians hold. The bible contains very little of the extremists beliefs being touted on here and in today’s world. I believe God weeps at what Christians and what his church as come to represent.

    • Formerly Fargo Bob says:

      Really, Michael? You genuinely believe it’s intolerant of us to protest when someone equates us with terrorists and people who have sex with animals? But then you think you’re entitled to compare us to pedophiles. Michael, the days of treating us like garbage are over. Try treating your fellow human beings with a bit more respect, and you will get the same in return. Until then, you reap what you sow. Or, phrased differently, karma’s a bitch.

      • josh says:

        Really FFB, Let me tell you something. If I don’t want to respect you or your lifestyle I don’t have to! If you don’t like it tough shit. There’s a big difference between tolerance and acceptance. Most of the citizens in this country tolerate your lifestyle. Accept it? I don’t think so. It’s abhorrent behavior. Even children that are indoctrinated in school with tolerating your lifestyle think it’s gross behavior without any influence other than what people know instinctively is natural and unnatural. So get off your high horse and show a little humility. You’ve been granted a privilege in this country that many in the world will never know. If I were you I wouldn’t make waves. You just pissed off a lot of people with the duck dynasty deal and the backlash will be bad.

        • Avatar of realist realist says:

          Backlash will be bad? Seriously? What will actually happens is that any normal person will realize that these people are crazy. The right wing in this country wouldn’t even pass the Civil Rights Act if asked to vote on it. You’re an extremist and you don’t even realize you’re standing out there in crazy country.

          • josh says:

            Then I’m proud to be so! Along with the rest of the 99% of Americans in crazy country! You’re not much of a realist when you equate what’s right with being crazy and what’s wrong with being righteous. That’s the attitude that the majority of Americans are sick of.

          • entech says:

            Michael Ross says: December 20, 2013 at 4:36 pm
            Josh read Michaels reference, It would indicate that 99% is a slight exageration, and becoming more so every year.
            I know it is a liberal, commie and atheistic sensationalist paper by your standards but it is a little bit credible surely, it does have Christian in its name.

        • Formerly Fargo Bob says:

          Josh, the irony is that you think you’re normal, and I am not. You remind me of my idiot neighbor in Fargo who told us we should be grateful that they allowed us to live in “their” neighborhood. May I suggest you leave the United States and take your craziness to Russia, where you and it will be welcomed with open arms. Our country can easily get by without your kind of tolerance.

          • entech says:

            For the truly bible believer that should be modified to, “we should be grateful that they allowed us to live in “their” neighborhood.” and if they don’t it is your own fault.

            Leviticus 20:13 overrides Exodus 20:13

        • Formerly Fargo Bob says:

          I generally avoid throwing around words like fascist, but after reading Josh’s diatribe I can say that calling him a fascist is no exaggeration. Sinclair Lewis described people like him perfectly almost 80 years ago in “It Can’t Happen Here.” Josh’s kind hasn’t changed in all that time.

    • josh says:

      Right on Brad!

    • josh says:

      Excellent comment Michael!

    • Avatar of realist realist says:

      Good grief did you actually hear exactly what he said? He piled on with his comments on black people being so happy with no reason to complain when he grew up during the Jim Crow era. The guy’s a retrograde. Anybody with an ounce of intelligence recognizes that, except people who believe that black people really had it good during that time and that gay people are the devil incarnate.

      • Wolfy32 says:

        You have to speak “extremist” to understand them. ;)
        I don’t either. I’ve tried learning it but it’s too extreme for me. I don’t believe in genocide. And really have no malice against anyone, so, I pitty the extremist. So, insecure of themselves that they have to impose themselves on everyone else in the hopes that somehow they feel more secure in themselves…

        In the end they just stand out as “crazy” in their insecurity and lack of self assurance and lack of self identification.

        A black and white bubble is much easier to live in than a gray one where everything can be a little confusing. The cataclysm that happens when their bubbles burst, well, yeah, that is a pretty extreme event. ;)

      • josh says:

        Did you even read the article? Or are you just quoting the reinterpreted version made available by the radical homosexual groups. You know? The ones that want to convert your children into acceptance so that they can try to diddle them someday.

  4. Catholic Dad says:

    Jon,

    As I understand a free thinker they look at the both sides of the issue, and decide. I fear you are only reading one side of the issue on abortion. It is the Pro-Life side that is providing choices for a pregnant women in regards to free pregnancy clinics. It is the Pro-Life side that is providing free counseling for post abortive women and men. It is the Pro-Life side that is providing job alternatives to abortion workers. It is the Pro-Life side that prays for the women, the child, and the abortion worker.

    Pro-life means being for life at all stages, it means having compassion for both the Mother, the child, the old, the sick, the handicapped, and disabled. I guess in one sense I agree with you, don’t demonize them offer them love, compassion, and support. Teach them what a incredible gift a child is, and how rewarding it is to sustain life.

    After all if we cannot get the question of life correct, what can we get right.

    Peace be with you all

    • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

      C. Dad 12:46 Thank for the thoughtful post. We could all learn from you about how to present views in a positive way.

      “…compassion for the Mother..” Sometimes I see that. There are people who support abortions when the Mother’s life is in danger. And then sometimes not, the Mother should always be dead the dead one when there is a choice.

      My overall problem with Right to Life politics is that it is really not “right to life”. It is, it seems to me, fetus worship. Mostly, there is no interest in the Mother. Child birth is a leading cause of death amoung women. Thus, statistically, several abortions save the life of a Mother. Focus on “life” should focus on the life of the Mother as well.

      There are dozens of issues that involve life, but pro life ignores them. Easily preventable car crash lives is the one I bring up over and over again. Then, there is econoomical access to health care, support for a healthier environment and on and on. In fact, I think I am more pro life than the people screaming at young women who are walking to the Red River Woman’s Health Clinic.

      So, I respect your suggestion that I listen more to the pro life arguments and not listen so much to pro choice. May I respectfully suggest you listen more to broad issues affecting lives of all humans and do what you can to broaden the interests of the pro life political focus to all human life.

    • Wolfy32 says:

      Well Said Catholic Dad. I don’t agree with Abortion being a solution…

      In school teachers tried to indoctrinate in us “Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.” Well, at the time, it clicked in my head suicide is a solution. Who cares if it’s permanent or not, I didn’t at the time… I needed a way out of my life.

      Many of these women need a solution. Abortion is a solution. Most likely not the best one.. However, abortions are in demand, if we treat it as an economical problem … Law of supply and demand, if the demand goes down the supply will decrease.. Eventually no one would give a rat’s ass if it’s legal or not.

      How do we do that.. Well, what you’ve said is definately a start.. The problem is many of these women don’t have a way to care for a child for 18 years. Or they’ve messed up their own lives, they need full time therapy, most likely medication to help them cope and rebuild their lives. They need funds to take care of themselves, let alone funds to take care of a child. I know I don’t have the money to fund a bunch of women to take care of themselves and their children. Maybe churches do? Maybe if more counseling services were available to women, more economic and financial support available to allow them to live. Maybe if women weren’t routinely abused and taken advantage of, forced into horrendous situations by family members, churches, schools, people in authority, they would make better decisions for themselves and then better decisions for their child.

      I don’t believe the legality of abortion is going to solve anything except give the illusion of some type of political victory to Christians, we won the fight against abortion? (If it were illegalized). Really? What would Christians truely gain? The ability to turn a blind eye to pregnant girls not old enough to take care of themselves let alone a child?

      Yet, we demonize them, saying they’re sluts, while the guy is applauded at another conquest. We truely need to stop demonizing women, girls, and start supporting them. Christ would go to all these people an console them, maybe even give them a hug, and tell them they are the ones that heaven contains. He wouldn’t demonize them, he wouldn’t tell them they’re worthless sluts.

      Yet, as a society, it’s easier to just demonize “abortion” instead of address all the issues around abortion. The way I see it is:

      1. Education and birth control.
      2. Economic support for the mother.
      3. Emotional support (therapy and / or medicinal support where actually needed for the mother).
      4. Family education on how to raise a child for the mother.
      5. Drug and alcohol evaluations and therapy as needed.
      6. Child support for the 18 years the child is a child (roughly $250,000 per aborted child.)
      7. Day care support.
      8. Medical support for the mother and child.
      9. Did I mention emotional support system for the mother. (quality trustworthy daycares and babysitters for time away).
      10. Quality professional training and education to get a quality job to support the child and become self sufficient.
      11. Lastly, and most importantly, a sponsor that can invest in the mother, the belief that she can move forward with a child.

      Society’s contribution per aborted child: Probably between $500,000 and a million per mother child / combination for the 18 years the child will need care and support. Plus lots of emotional support! To cover the top 11 items.

      I agree, Catholic Dad, everything you listed is a step in the right direction, but, we as a society do not have the resources it would take to undertake something this large. Until we do make this level of investment, Abortion will remain a solution.

      Even then, there’s a lot of selfish people out there that wouldn’t put the energy into this and would sabotage the child’s life if they couldn’t have an abortion. Doing drugs, drinking alcohol, smoking, etc while pregnant. Uncaring of their situations. thinking no one cares about them, so why care about their child….

      This is a societal issue, that we are unable to control. Too big to wrap our heads around, and too big for anyone to do much about. Yet, votes are generated, campaign money is gained, by simply having an opinion on the legality of abortion. What if a poltician (or a pastor for that matter) said “I want to help young mothers, considering abortion, raise their child for the next 18 years.” Let’s fund the mother and the child to raise this child so it’s not aborted. Give the mother hope that there’s something other than destitution ahead. It has to be proven real hope, not counsel them for 9 months, then when the baby’s born walk away… That’s dooming the mother and child..

      • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

        Wolfy32 2:40 “$250,000″

        That’s what abortion opponents need to focus on. They feel no responsibilty to the Mother or to raising a child. “The Mother sinned, the Mother must pay.” If opponents really want to save lives, they could do so by offering financial support for not having abortions.

        • Wolfy32 says:

          I think it’s something as a society everyone needs to focus on. Abortion could be reserved only for when people’s lives are in danger.. Vs. for when people would be otherwise destitute or already are destitute.

          I feel as a culture and society we have a responsbility to help take care of those in our comunities, include of unborn children. If we abandon them, then the mother has no accountability to “us” for abandoning her child.

        • josh says:

          We already do Jon, It’s called contraceptives. It’s payed for by medicaid, insurance companies, and obama care.

      • josh says:

        By that logic we should go out and kill all the unwanted children of single moms because it’s going to cost us more money than having them alive. Sound like Wolfy should change his name to Hitler.

        • Wolfy32 says:

          Nope, I didn’t say that.. At all. I said if you went to end abortion end the reasons people have abortions.. I would guess a majority of them are due to lack of social, economic, and emotional support to raise a child..

          And you’re right, there are millions probably of other moms out there that do need help… Contact the Rape and abuse crisis center to see how you can help!! It’s a start.

          There’s lots of single moms out there struggling to make ends meat and raise their kids the best they can.. They’d love a day off from responsibilities.

          Another program is Big Brothers Big Sisters. There’s many kids, moms, and families in need of nothing more than their next meal. Take all the political funds spent on anti abortion and go out and help the people in need instead of fighting about it.

          If we leave it to others to deal with the problems they’ll find ways to deal with the problems, Sadly, abortion legal or illegal is going to remain one of the ways, until someone helps these people.

          Yes, there’s some that would stop with it being illegal, and some women that need to take responsibility for their actions, yet, why should we condemn people for their bad choices… According to Christianity, our sin is simply being born, so our first bad choice was existing in the first place..

          By that logic, I guess could be a righteous act…. We’re preventing people from sinning by not allowing them to be born!

          It’s also why I was nearly driven to suicide. I was worthless in the eyes of religion.. After all, everything I do is /was a sin..

          The judgements need to go if Christianity has any hope.. And to make a real change / difference in abortion, the condemnation needs to go and reconciliation to find ways to help these people that have them to A) recover and cope after having one, and B) help support the people before they have them.

          It takes a village to raise a child. And many of these kids have half a parent if that because they have to work in order to feed their child, and can’t afford to feed themselves on their income.

          However, it’s not convient to actually solve real problems, it’s more convenient to just demonize abortion. Then one doesn’t actually have to do anything and can still get money for campaigning and can still get elected.

          • josh says:

            Guess they shouldn’t spread their legs without birth control. I’m very pro-choicer up until you have unprotected sex. Then you’ve made your choice and you need to live with the consequences. Sorry I’m not from Africa. So when you say it takes a village to raise a child then you’re referring to the village idiot which is what most liberals are classified as. It take two responsible parents to raise a child. Gooooo! Phil Robertson. Great Jay thomas show today.

        • Wanna B Sure says:

          Josh: To take liberties on the title of today’s blog topic: …” Christmas would be a good time for the faithful to…” (remember the advent), not divisive matters. To do otherwise is to abandon being “faithful.” Just saying.

        • entech says:

          Josh, what did you say about Godwin’s Law. :(

        • Wanna B Sure says:

          Josh, and other like minded folks: There are many “hot button issues, “favored by various groups. There are about four that keep popping up. I would ask you to consider Paul’s statement in 1 Cor. 2, paying special attention to 1 Cor. 2:2; “For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and him crucified. all else is distraction, and you loose your purpose and message. If the first thing you do is insult, that is all you will accomplish.

      • entech says:

        Wolfy your eleven commandments seem so obviously what any good and decent human being would agree to.

        Seems that only those that oppose the idea of love your neighbor, do unto others etc. those that post such vehement opposition to such ideas, pretend Christians like Josh. Those that give Christianity and a bad name and then blame non believers for rejecting their rubbish, asking why do you hate God, why do you hate Christians and so on; the simple answer is we don’t, please do take it personally, it is you.

        CD, WBS and all the other decent honest Christians you are not part of my animosity.

      • Catholic Dad says:

        Wolfy,

        First I’m happy to hear that you did not give into suicide – that would have been a tragedy.

        There is a maternity home in Warsaw ND. It is called St. Gianna’s. http://saintgiannahome.org/ It allows women to stay during their pregnancy, and up to two years after the child is born. It is a amazing place, ran by amazing women.

        I don’t agree with you fact that it costs $500,000 per child for there first 18 years, however, for argument sake I will agree with it. My counter argument is this a person in his life on average will produce $750,000 more than they will cost.

        In order for a society to continue the birth rate has to be 2.01.
        Some countries to be concerned about are Europe, formerly soviet union, china, and Australia.

        It is my children that are going to support your social security, it is my children that are going to teach your child, it is my children that are going to contribute more to society than they will take out. A comparison could be children are like R&D, if we don’t invest in them, soon we will have no future.

        Quick facts on oral contraceptives – they like cigarettes are considered a class A carcinogen, which mean they cause cancer. Also they are only 91% effective meaning that if you take them for 10 years you are about 100% guaranteed you are going to get pregnant. Last fact comes from Guttmacher institute, research arm for planned parenthood.

        Jon – according to world health report – heart disease is the number one cause of death in the world – HIV/AIDS is the number one killer for women in child rearing age. These facts came from World Health Organization.

        Appreciate the kind words – please do more research into abortion, do not believe the media – do your own investigation. It does not make sense financially or scientifically.

        As you expect I have spent many hours PRAYING in front of the Red River Valley Clinic. You will not find people harassing women, you will find people praying, and offering women alternatives. I can say that I personally have been verbally assaulted, and had things thrown at me.

        A quick note to Josh – God loves you – I know you are concerned for all of the posters on this blog, hence the reason you post. Can I suggest a book called “Unplanned” by Abby Johnson. I think you will enjoy it.

        Have a blessed day

        • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

          C. Dad 3:51 “do you own investigation.”

          I have in fact been doing this for 40 years. 800 women die everyday worldwide due to childbirth. The rate in the U. S. has doubled in the last 25 years, ironically a time when protests against abortion have been escalated. There is fact you cannot avoid, no matter how hard you pray. Childbirth kills mothers. Period. Abortion saves lives of mothers. Period.

          As to your praying in front of the Red River Womans Clinic, I am happy you are not one of those who screams at patients and spreads lies. I have had a different experience I wrote about here before you arrived. In the 1980′s, when I was Mayor of Fargo and loud abusive protests were taking place, I began to receive mail and comments at public meetings that were lies. I received letters from New York to California. Protestors started a lie that my wife owned the clinic and that was why I supported police presense there to allow access and maintain order.

          Several times, I offered protestors the opportunity to examine our income tax and bank records to find evidence of her “ownership”. They sneared at such an offer and never took me up on it. So, you can continue to feel good about your appearance in front of the clinic. I will continue to see protestors the way I actually experienced them.

          • josh says:

            That sounds like the view of an ignorant old man who refuses to accept change.

          • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

            josh 5:25 “That sounds like the view of an ignorant old man who refuses to accept change.”

            We have here on our board two types of debaters. One presents arguments for his/her case, the other shoots the messenger. You are mostly of the latter. You are welcome here, nevertheless.

          • Catholic Dad says:

            Jon,

            Here are the reasons women die in pregnancy according to WHO.
            “Five direct complications account for most of maternal deaths: haemorrhage , infection, abortion, eclampsia (very high blood pressure leading to seizures –, and obstructed labour. While these are the main causes of maternal death, unavailable, inaccessible, unaffordable, or poor quality care is fundamentally responsible.”

            If we look at the US – you will not find pregnancy as a cause for death in the top ten – as per CDC stats for 2010.

            The abortion movement has changed in the last 15+ years to from the one you experienced, in the 80′s, to one of compassion, and love, for both the Mother and the child. You will still find fringe pro-life people, and they are the exception, especially in ND. To lump us all together would be the equivalent of me labeling all homosexuals as militant.

            As the Irish blessing goes …
            “….may the wind be always at your back,
            and until we meet again, may God hold you in the palm of his hand.”

          • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

            C. Dad 4:08 “If we look at the U. S.–you will not find pregnancy as a cause for death in the top ten.”

            That is correct. But, to point that out is to drift off the basic argument. The pro life movement says its cause is to “save lives”. Yet, it is defenseless in facing the fact that pregnancy causes some deaths in women. So, to be honest and ethical, the pro life political wing should stop saying its purpose is to save lives. It should instead say, “Our purpose to save lives of fetuses even though we acknowledges this leads to the death of some women.”

            Then, you are careful to reference only U. S. numbers. You must admit the pro life movement does not promote anti abortion policies just in the U. S., it promotes them world wide. Anti abortion politics has been successful in causing U. S. aid to be withheld from countries that do not swallow completely the anti abortion pill. Yet, there are places in the world were pregnancy deaths are more than one in one hundred–places where girls under 15 are routinely pregnant. Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I have never seen a statement by an antiabortion organization that says, “Until the unsafe circumstances are improved, we endorse abortions in those locations.”

            While I respect you right to believe whatever you wish, this slipperiness, actually cruelity, of pro life politics is why I hold it in low regard.

  5. Michael Ross says:

    Good news for your side. You are winning. Well, maybe not winning but making “progress”. You are the “progressives”, after all.

    “Belief in God, Heaven and Miracles Down; Belief in Evolution Up”

    http://www.christianpost.com/news/belief-in-god-heaven-and-miracles-down-belief-in-evolution-up-111109/

    Jon’s blog is having profound effect.

    • josh says:

      Doubtful. he’s got about 4 followers.

    • Wolfy32 says:

      First off, this is very good advice for Christians. Instead of demonizing / putting down everyone that doesn’t believe like them, or pittying them, see what they can do to help non christians. Throw ropes out to help, be examples. Christ Fed people without talking about God. He taught people how to pay their bills, and how to conduct their lives. he wasn’t out telling people they’ll go to hell. The sermon where Jesus produced fish and bread, had little, if anything, to do with talking about God. He told people how to live happy and how to pay bills. Instead of preaching, get out and help people live. All people know for sure is what’s in this life. And if they’re so consumed by the problems of this life, they don’t care about the next one, this one is hard enough to survive! If Christianity wants to make a come back and earn back people, it’s going to have to stand for what Christ stood for. And right now… I see God Shunning Christians world wide, because he’s most likely tired of their pompous asses thinking they have the right to safely judge everyone else from their pews. (not saying all christians are like that. But, my first hand experience is that the arrogance, pride, and self rightous attitudes start at the pulpit…)

      “”If I’m pro-Christ…I am not throwing rocks, I am throwing ropes to this world,” he said.”

      “”So the Christian needs to not just have a gospel that gets them out of hell, but it needs to be a gospel that changes their life, so that when the irreligious sees a Christian, they say, ‘Yes, I believe it’s real,’” he said.”‘

      Well, at the risk of semi contradicting myself. How is “changing” ones life going to convince everyone that it’s real? I think everyone should strive to change their life to be better people for society. Why can’t Christians be happy with improving themselves. If other people ask, fill them in, instead of trying to solicit new members. Let people be, let them make their own choices, if they choose to find out what you’re doing to be a better person tell them, hey, I’ve worked hard in my church by volunteering and doing things to help the community and I’ve gained a lot of hope through God. If people don’t ask, just be there for people..

      It’s this need to “evangelize” and this thinking that everyone needs saving. Let each person decide whether they need saving and what they need saving from!

    • entech says:

      Not exactly a milestone result Michael, more an inchpebble. But, at least a move in the right direction.

  6. entech says:

    Perhaps this would be a good time of year to consider some of the immediate predecessors, the Jewish thinkers like Hillel the Elder who spent the last 40 years of his life in Jerusalem studying the Torah, dying about 10 AD.

    Hillel is probably best known for accepting the challenge from a gentile (perhaps a roman centurion) to recite the torah while standing on one leg and answered:

    “What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow: this is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn”

    Brotherly love is the fundamental principle of Jewish moral law, Rabbi Yeshua advocated strongly in favour of the law, go and learn.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

*

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>