Everyone is Talking About an Invisible Man, The Devil.

There have been so many references to Satan the last few days, one can hardly keep up with them.  Michelle Bachmann, Ted Cruz, Rand Paul and Judge Scalia have all weighed in on the war with evil.  Not to mention, Richard Land, a former executive in the Southern Baptist Convention, who said yesterday the society it wracked by demonic forces.

To understand the ancient appeal of an invisible demonic force, we can simply look at contemporary literature.  The famous book, 1984, concerned taking over a society by writing ficticious news releases about battlefields far removed and not seen by citizens.  In the basement of a building, several people retained political control over the public by telling of great battles with an unseen enemy.

Everything done by people not approved of are signs of Satan’s power.  In today’s world, it is the Muslims and the gays.  Signs of them are in the Bible, so they say.

Satan must remain invisible just as the god figure must remain invisible as well.  If either were human beings, what they stand for would at least somewhat defined.  As invisible beings, they can represent whatever is needed by any individual.  “God approves of me because (I approve of what I an doing).”  “Satan is behind (whatever I disapprove of).”

As one who cannot find evidence of either, I find the constant reference to the god somewhat annoying.  But, reference to Satan in not annoying, it is funny.

The Satan figure is so transparently self serving it looks like parody.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/14/keep-religion-out-politics

Avatar of Jon Lindgren

About Jon Lindgren

I am a former President of the Red River Freethinkers in Fargo, ND, a retired NDSU economics professor and was Mayor of Fargo for 16 years. There is more about me at Wikipedia.com.
This entry was posted in Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink.

47 Responses to Everyone is Talking About an Invisible Man, The Devil.

  1. entech says:

    A “good God” that created everything would never have created such an entity. Just shows Marcion could have been right after all.

    • Brad says:

      Man created the Devil, not God. The political hustlers of that time (the Ted Cruzes and Michelle Bachmanns of that day) had to have something to scare the crap out of the ignorant masses. Just having a goody goody invisible man would mean that there wouldn’t be much to be afraid of. They needed the evil invisible man with the red suit and pitchfork and his very own flame filled pit to control people through fear.

      Satan is probably the single greatest con job ever sold in human history.

      • entech says:

        Man created the Devil, not God
        A minor correction if I may?
        Man created the Devil, and God

        Having corrected the first sentence permit me to have a go at the last?

        Satan Religion is probably the single greatest con job ever sold in human history.

        These are as usual just personal views, I cannot say with any certainty that they are correct any more than anyone can say with certainty that the alternatives are correct.

    • Wanna B Sure says:

      It’s my understanding based on various texts from Genesis , Job, or Isaiah for example, (I need not list them here), that , (choose your favorite name-Lucifer?) was initially created of the highest order of Angles, but rebelled against His/ the creator, later, taking many others with him, becoming the adversary, and all his mini me’s. Of course Marcion would not agree, and he could have been wrong after all.

      • Brad says:

        Lucifer was initially created of the highest order of Angles, but rebelled against His/ the creator, later, taking many others with him, becoming the adversary, and all his mini me’s.”

        Here is another apparent misstep by God. The all knowing, all powerful God apparently knew all of this would happen, so to prevent it, he could have simply not created him.

        The problem is that at the end of the day, God himself created evil. There is no way around it.

        • Wanna B Sure says:

          “created evil”–If that’s how you see it, nothing will change your mind. Created? or Allowed once rebellion occurred? Cat out of the bag? sweet without bitter? Well , stay bitter then.

  2. Brad says:

    “Michelle Bachmann, Ted Cruz, Rand Paul and Judge Scalia have all weighed in on the war with evil.”

    Well, I consider the GOP the party of the Devil, so these loons should very well know something about it.

  3. Avatar of realist realist says:

    “Devil” spelled backwards is “lived”. Coincidence? According to conservative Christians everything is mapped out by god. So what is god trying to tell us?

  4. Michael Ross says:

    “Everyone is Talking About an Invisible Man, The Devil. ” No one more than Jon. He is obsessed with him.

    • David Yotham says:

      He should be obsessed with the Devil – he’ll be camping out with him for eternity.

      • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

        David 7:37 Thanks for the first time post. Come by and post again.

        I didn’t know one went “camping out” with the Devil. I thought it was in a fire or something.

        • Candyman says:

          Jon, I do NOT want to see you separated from God for all eternity! Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” John 14:6 He has also said, “He who comes to me I will no wise cast out!” John 6:37

          • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

            Candyman 9:18 re: John 14:6, John 6:37

            There are two problems with those references. First, we don’t really know there was a historical Jesus and, if there was, there is no way to trace the origin of the quote attributed to him. Second, there is no third party to varify what he said was true. Just because he said he was the truth and the life does not make it so. We need a varifiable third party to be certain of this.

    • entech says:

      This is amazing all the responders on this blog that are anti-Jon, that is practically all that declare as Christian, say that Jon “hates God” and now we have Michael telling us that Jon is “obsessed” with the Devil.
      Most of us that are pro-Jon are pretty close to saying that neither exists, certainly our belief systems do not include their existence as necessary.

      This misotheism and or antitheism is difficult to maintain against an invisible, imaginary entity. There are so many …theisms that it is hard to track them all. The one thing that seems constant is that the accusation of hatred is a mirror image, a projection of the theists belief, the idea is that there is something wrong with anyone that can’t accept my beliefs as obviously true, they are not normal, and I hate things that are not normal.

      The Devil on the other is not consistently thought of as an actual entity. Nothing in Judaism, very little in Christianity until the middle ages when an obsession with witches and demons developed. The question of why this mythical Devil dropped from favour is a mystery almost as big as his creation. Some talk of Genesis and serpents, but the serpent does not seem to be positively identified , or even mentioned as being created, just day six make man – day seven rest. The one I like best is the one about God creating man as the pinnacle of creation and dominant over all of creation not being accepted by this angel – apparently a pre-creation already in existence when the “The Creation” was accomplished, in refusing to bow to Adam and be subservient he had no choice but to leave heaven and God had no choice but to throw him and his followers out of heaven. With all this no choice business going on you have to query “freewill” (Luther did).

      But a devil or similar threat has proved useful, even invaluable, to misquote Voltaire:
      “If God did not exist, it would be necessary for man to invent Him”

      • Wanna B Sure says:

        “refusing to bow down to Adam”; Been digging into the Quran, Pseudipigraphia, and Mystery Babble-on I see. Very well then.

      • entech says:

        “If God did not exist, it would be necessary for man to invent Him”
        Sorry that was Voltaire, what I think is:
        “If Satan did not exist, it would be necessary for the Church to invent Him”

        • Wanna B Sure says:

          The horse “was” there before the cart was. And yes, the church institutional quite often has been a useful tool for He who has great guile.

      • entech says:

        Then there is Lilith, her rebellion was refusing to bow down for Adam.

        So many funny little bits and pieces it really is miracle that it is still taken seriously. usual attribution.

      • David says:

        Pro-Jon or anti-Jon – that is the question . . . or maybe not. I think a natural reaction when one dismisses another’s beliefs is to conclude hatred. Part of that is because for some dismissing their beliefs is like dismissing them or a big part of them. Atheists often impugn the beliefs of the religious as being ridiculous, funny or imbecilic. One does not have to respect another’s position with respect to the existence of God. But atheists often do not respect the person with position.

        I’ve come to conclude that there is a decent subset of atheists for which this is the point. They want to feel superior to the Religious. It is what motivates them.

        • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

          David 4:09 Thanks for a nice summary of how you see the divide among us.

          While there are, no doubt, atheists who see themselves as superiour in intellect, and, Christians who see themselves as superior to athiests, I think the overall difference is this: Skeptics do not see independent evidence of the spiritual world. Christians read in the Bible of those who claim they are the gods and believe these claims. That’s about all there is to the differences.

          • David says:

            I think I understand atheists arguments against the existence of God, but I do think there is an under current that motivates atheists. I do think most likely that atheists and the religious tend to come at the arguments so differently that there is little opportunity to discuss. For instance a Christian arguing using the Bible will have no chance of getting an atheist to understand why they believe. It’s like a Liberal arguing to a Conservative of the necessary changes in the ACA – the differences are not in the details but in broader questions.

          • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

            David 8:22 “..the differences are not in the detail but in broader questions.”

            Well said. I think the popularity of either point of view will depend on acceptance of rejection of these larger points of view–is the Bible something other than a book written by unknown ancients, is there evidence of life after death, is there such a thing as sin, did the figure, Jesus, actually come back to life….?

        • entech says:

          I do think that many serious people think long and hard about the existence or otherwise of a creator. If you accept the existence then you need to go further and accept the Trinity to be a Christian (in the most usually described form, i.e. Universalists, JWs, and many others are rejected as being Christian by the more orthodox). There is no good argument to make the leap from theism to Christianity in particular.
          Having put the time and effort into the enterprise it would be difficult to admit how much time and effort was wasted if someone else could simply reject it all with similar study, the obvious answer and one that undercurrents most argument is that the atheist actually believes but won’t admit it. The reason therefore is that they hate God, the idea that there is no God is not considered possible it is a trick of the devil.

          • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

            entech 10:53 “..the obvious answer and one that undercuts most argument is that the atheist actually believes but won’t admit it.”

            We’ve seen that argument made here on the comment pages countless times. It’s that we who are skeptics fight off “the truth” but will eventually succombe. I suppose it avoids having to deal with the difficult job of presenting their case in a way that is appealing to the skeptic–actually impossible it seems.

      • Candyman says:

        wow! you definitely, def-definitely have got your wires crossed, man. Voltaire is dead! of which he has been long forgotten! Rather, why don’t you ask Jesus to reveal himself to you? He promises He will if you ask and seek Him with you whole heart. Please, prove me wrong? what have you got to loose?

        • entech says:

          Wow, did you know??? Jesus died before Voltaire. In most of Europe you will find Voltaire is as much, if not more, remembered. Possibly even more respected.

    • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

      Michael 5:03 “‘Everyone is talking about an invisible man, the Devil.’ No one more than Jon. He is obsessed with him.”

      How can one not find it fascinating to sit in the stands and watch an imaginary battle between two invisible beings. As entech as correctly pointed out, neither appears to exist in reality. But, those who believe they both exist are into the battle big time.

      The Republican party has made up various villians to demonize as a part of their politics, most recently gays. I would be surprised if the do not put their battle against Satan into the official party platform. (Or, maybe they already have.)

      • David says:

        Funny how the President ran against the idea of gay marriage in 2008. Why did he hold such a hay-seed belief? Did anyone ask him to explain his position on gay marriage? Did he come up with a conservative explanation? No explanation necessary, as we all suspected that he was lying. Once you have established that you have no credibility it matters not what you say henceforth.

        So you give the lying President a pass – understood as he was being deceptive for a cause in which you believe. But then you make up this theory that Republicans hate gays. I’m sure there are some that hate gays. I’m sure there are plenty of Democrats that hate gays. What’s interesting is how there apparently was silence when both parties were against gay marriage. Democrats didn’t get accused of making gays villains. Your caricature of Republicans and apparent belief in your own making is what is silly.

        • Avatar of realist realist says:

          He didn’t “run against” the idea of gay marriage. He simply said he had reservations about it. Then, he found his viewpoint evolved as more evidence presented itself. This is exactly what you want in a leader: someone who has the courage to change as new evidence and data become available. Of course, it was political as well as is everything you do when you are president. The silly shutdown the Republicans have engineered is also political. While individual Republicans may not hate gay people, the point is that Republican policy is anti-gay and has been for a long time. This is not a caricature. Policy is policy and you can’t dodge it.

          • David says:

            What a load of crap. Putting one’s finger to the wind is hardly courage. His viewpoint evolved about the time he figured that it wouldn’t hurt him electorally. Don’t tell me you fell for that.

            The shut down is political – I’ll grant you that. I don’t know that it will be that effective. We’ll have to see.

            Republican policy is not anti-gay. I am not against gay people. I do not wish anything bad to happen to gay people. Some of my favorite people in the world are gay. However, I am not in favor of gay marriage. Being in favor of marriage between a man and woman is not anti-gay.

      • Avatar of realist realist says:

        Yep, the war on Christmas appears regularly as the work of the devil.

        • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

          realist 6:28 “..the war on Christmas appears regularly as the work of the devil.”

          And, as retailers, who we know are devout Christians because they play Christmas carols in the mall, hype Christman sales earlier and earlier, Satan has to crank up his evil “war on Christmas” earlier and earlier as well. We will hear soon again about Satan’s war on Christmas. It shows up as regularly as a mall Santa.

  5. Wanna B Sure says:

    It is interesting to note that in Harry Potter, the name of the worst of the worst should not be muttered, but the best of the best was threatened to be silenced. While Harry Potter is not important, some concepts still remain.

  6. wolfy32 says:

    I believe there’s more to our existence than what we see… I’m not so arrogant to think that what I see is all there is.. If that were the case.. the blind man would have a miserable existence, because what he sees…. is nothing therefore nothing exists.

    The blind person is a perfect example of why I believe we are blind as well. blind by our limited brain power and physical capabilities. Why we build telescopes to see into that which we cannot, but, believe there may be more for us to see. Things we have to use math to see instead of eye sight.

    I believe radiation, the wind, and many invisible things exist… That said, I believe we only are aware of probably 10-20% of what is around us.. There’s probably colors and things in so much more detail than we can possibly imagine around us. However, we only see what we are capable of seeing. And to say that because I can’t see it, it doesn’t exist… well, all I have to say is tell that to a blind person crossing a busy street by himself.

    That said… “The devil made me do it…” is too easy.. Or “That is the devil’s work.” is too easy of a cop out… It’s abused and overused.. And the truth regardless of evil forces is that people need to take responsibility for themselves. if there are evil forces being accountable and responsible for oneself given free will, would eliminate any influences….

  7. Candyman says:

    Does the devil exist? Let me ask you, “have you ever seen anyone healed after someone has prayed for them in the name of Jesus?” If you have, you would of had a small taste of the power of the name of Jesus. All power and authority has been given to Him. You atheist don’t believe in God? that’s fine, do me a favor, look at your phone? what time is it? Recorded time and history is based on the man you “don’t believe in”. Do you want to know? do you REALLY want to know? I really don’t think you do! or am I wrong? I’m not afraid to ask Jesus, are you? are you? “Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them” John 14:21 Whatever you do, please, just stop being cowards! take the litmus test! if you dare…

    • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

      Candyman 8:39 “Let me ask you, “have you ever seen anyone healed after someone prayed for them in the name of Jesus?”

      Yes, it happens every day. And, some people die after they have been prayed for. Then again, lots of people are not prayed for and they recover from very serious illnesses. I have such a friend who did not think he would make it through the week many months ago, and now his is doing well. Totally, a nonbeliever.

      • Candyman says:

        so God unearned favor and unmerited love wasn’t suffienient for him? …the goodness of the Lord leads people to repentance? Romans 2:4 Why do you think your friend recovered? was it so he could keep on w/ his Godless exsistance? or was it because God’s love was reaching out to him?
        My question should have been rephrased a bit here, Jon. “Have you ever personally witnessed anyone immediately healed after they were prayed by the laying on of hands in the name of Jesus Christ?” I would like to know? be specific

        • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

          Candyman 2:48 re: my nonbelieving friend who recovered from nearly being dead “So God’s unearned favor and unmerited love wasn’t suffienient for him?…or was it because God’s love was reaching out out to him?”

          He has recovered because of skilled doctors and perhaps some good luck. In the entire experience God never weighed in.

          • entech says:

            “unearned favor and unmerited love” would be a lot more believable if the man wasn’t so parsimonious with it. All those children that die from leukemia and other cancers, birth defects and so many in poor countries from simple starvation and malnutrition.

            Why don’t you select one worthy case and then pray with all your heart and soul, and see what happens. Of course the scientific method requires a repeatable and verifiable experiment.
            take the litmus test! if you dare…

            http://www.jimfeeney.org/Godisahealer.html

    • entech says:

      Let me ask you, “have you ever seen anyone healed after someone has prayed for them in the name of Jesus?” If you have, you would of had a small taste of the power of the name of Jesus. All power and authority has been given to Him
      Only on very early morning television, Benny Hinn.

      • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

        entech 5:33 “Only on very early morning television, Benny Hinn.”

        My very thought after I had turned off my computer for the night, Benny Hinn. We’ve all seen Benny Hinn heal people, thousands of them. When he was new at it, he faced the group, waved his arm and the mass of people collapsed, healed. He because so good that now he has back hand and fore hand moves, he can even heal people with a no-look back hand motion that is amazing.

        Now, there are, no doubt, Christians on this board who doubt the abilities and sincerity of Benny Hinn. That is very much like the accusation made of those of us who are skeptics–that we dismiss and do not respect the views of Christians.

        So, Candyman, I dare you to prove Benny Hinn does not cure all the people on stage every night of his show.

        (Just to make sure there is no misunderstanding, I do not respect Benny Hinn.)

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

*

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>