Will Minnesota Suffer God’s Wrath over Gay Marriage?

I can’t tell you the number of times people stood at the audience podium in Fargo’s City Commission Chamber and said something like, “This is dangerous what you are doing.  God will take his vengeance on Fargo.”

The reasons included our Police keeping protesters from blocking entrance to the Women’s Health Clinic, my Gay and Lesbian Awareness Week proclamations and a few other issues that came along.  And, I have to admit a lot of storms and bitter cold have punished Fargo since I did these things.

Now that Minnesota has passed a gay marriage bill, someone is predicting cold winters.

Many comments have been made here about the miserable eternity that awaits me.

The problem with these is they get lost in the blizzard of predictions that are made every day about countless sins pointed to by the faithful knowitalls.  Some of those predictions are in the attached link.

If Obama is elected, pundits said before both of his victories, all guns will be taken from the public and one in five Republican said the after Christ will be in the White House.  Need we forget, Pat Robertson thought God had told him Romney would win two terms.

If Obamacare was pasted, it was predicted old people would be allowed to die en masse because they were not productive.  Then, if the military was secularized, Christians would be expelled.

Is it any wonder atheists do not worry about predictions of their pending future in hell?

http://www.christianpost.com/news/minn-gov-signs-gay-marriage-bill-some-brace-for-gods-wrath-96163/

http://www.alternet.org/belief/10-ridiculous-christian-right-prophesies?akid=10448.292072.UycOQy&rd=1&src=newsletter841592&t=10&paging=off

Avatar of Jon Lindgren

About Jon Lindgren

I am a former President of the Red River Freethinkers in Fargo, ND, a retired NDSU economics professor and was Mayor of Fargo for 16 years.
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77 Responses to Will Minnesota Suffer God’s Wrath over Gay Marriage?

  1. Avatar of realist realist says:

    God’s wrath? OK, so let’s make believe such a thing exists. If a 50% divorce rate among men and women who are married hasn’t done the trick, then I don’t think getting same sex couples to marry would add any additional inducement for wrath to be unleashed. What a concept; god’s wrath. How does one recognize it from, say, a series of tornados or a horrific fire? Me thinks god’s wrath is only recognizable by those who have a guilty secret.

    • entech says:

      God’s wrath is only recognised by those that think God exists. They tend to think that their God is a god of justice and mercy, they are rather foolish in not realising that in attributing all this horror to God’s Wrath they are diminishing and belittling their God, surely this is a greater blasphemy than simply doubting the existence.

  2. Henry says:

    Jon:“Is it any wonder atheists do not worry about predictions of their pending future in hell?”

    Jon, don’t worry. Be happy. Enjoy your worldly wealth of bicycles, planes, and yurts. That is what it is all about, isn’t it?

  3. Avatar of Kevin Kevin says:

    Who is going to be forced to pay the cost for homosexual marriage?

  4. Brad says:

    If we want to know if the wrath of God will be executed on Minnesota, then it might be a good idea to take an inventory of the wraths (if any) that were executed on the other several states that have already had gay marriage for several years.

    The problem for the anti-gay crowd is that as more and more states allow gay marriage, and the longer time goes on where nothing particularly bad happens as a result, their arguments will be seen for the fallacies that they are.

  5. Wanna B Sure says:

    There’s already a plague of carp. But not to worry, we can make lutefisk with them. We could be the lutecarp capital of the world.

  6. Michael Ross says:

    7“Yet you said, ‘I will be a queen forever.’
    These things you did not consider
    Nor remember the outcome of them.

    8“Now, then, hear this, you sensual one,
    Who dwells securely,
    Who says in your heart,
    ‘I am, and there is no one besides me.
    I will not sit as a widow,
    Nor know loss of children.(Isaiah 47:7-8)

    Rome was “eternal” but like Babylon and all great civilizations it lies in the dustbin of history. Why? because it refused to covenant with God.

    The wicked will go down to the grave. This is the fate of all the nations who ignore God.(Psalm 9:17)

    What arrogance to think that we will not suffer this fate as a nation. That attitude also calls for judgement.

    • entech says:

      It is always amusing to me when the sanctimonious scripture literalists with their perfect knowledge of the requirements of their god speak accusingly of the arrogance of others. To claim to know the unknowable and claim this universe was created just for us, so that we could worship the creator is the ultimate in solipsistic arrogance.

    • Brad says:

      According to those same scriptures, the love of money is the root of all evil. Not gay marriage, the LOVE OF MONEY. Therefore, if God destroys America and casts it down to hell, it will be due to the Republican agenda of money and power and driving the working class into virtual slavery, not gay marriage.

  7. Simple says:

    Evangelicals seem to also believe in the opposite of this. That more Jesus magically fixes everything. From your marriage to your bad back, and from the national debt to oil impacts in western ND.

    • Brad says:

      Yeah, one would think that a God who can magically create the entire earth in six days should be able to magically fix whatever problems his product has developed, or better yet he should have been able to build a product that would never fail in the first place.

      • entech says:

        The seventh day should have been spent checking and testing, quality control, and then we may not have had so many problems, with a floods and droughts cycle, volcanoes, tidal waves, and, more of the earth would have been suitable for habitation. If that had been done there might have been some basis for the fine tuning argument, my two year old great niece could tune my motor cycle better than this lot is fine tuned.

        • Wanna B Sure says:

          There is “the 8th day”.

        • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

          entech 12:41 “quality control”

          That’s it, quality control. That’s what people of faith need to employ to convince skeptics like some of us here. When the promise is made about the heavenly eternal life far at a location somewhere above earth, they should demand “follow through”, the same thing they would demand of suppliers of products they use in their homes and offices.

          When promises are made others will suffer in hell, inspectors should be down there with their iphones sending up data. That’s what Christians would do to verify promises made by vendors to their homes and offices.

          The same thing with the wrath sent by God to Minnesota. They need to check the numbers of storms or frigid temps next winter and several winters into the future. We know, of course, they will not demand requirements of their faith because they are afraid of what they might find.

          • David says:

            One of the aspects that Christianity and its effects on Western Culture was to remove this sort of thinking: I am good and pious – good things will happen to me or if I am bad or non-religious – bad things will happen to me. Christianity also went a long ways towards the promotion of science as well as the removal of superstition. The arguments against which Jon rails are weak arguments – both theologically as well as from our common experience. It’s not difficult to tackle poor arguments.

          • David says:

            You will never be convinced. I will never be convinced. I think it is odd that one would require proof for something that is a matter of faith. That truly is illogical. One can never prove anything about faith. You can make arguments against and on behalf – but not proof. I think a healthy agnosticism, as I define it, is important in all religious followers. I think it would be healthy for atheists as well. To understand that there are limits to human knowledge is good. It is humbling. Both religious and non-religious would do well to respect our ignorance.

        • entech says:

          8 is blasphemy . From the seven days of creation to the seven seals of revelation it is always 7.

          And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. Genesis 2:2-3

          And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; because in them is filled up the wrath of God. Revelation 15:1

          And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. Revelation 16:17

          I suppose as anything is possible it could be done tomorrow, except to busy counting the seed money and watching millions of children die of starvation in Africa.

          Better not forget: Seven Deadly Sins and Seven Brides for Seven Brothers.

          Perhaps the 8th day is the first day of the new creation, hopefully it will be a better one , after a failed first. Failed but tenacious, couldn’t even drown them out.

          • Wanna B Sure says:

            “8th day”, refers to the resurection of Christ, “The Lord’s Day”. Early on in the ancient church, they gathered on the Lord’s day, (Sunday) The day after the 7th day. The resurection may be considered blasphemy among some Jews, and Adventists, but not for the majority of the Christian faith.

          • entech says:

            The eighth day. But for us a new day has dawned: the day of Christ’s Resurrection. The seventh day completes the first creation. The eighth day begins the new creation. Thus, the work of creation culminates in the greater work of redemption. The first creation finds its meaning and its summit in the new creation in Christ, the splendor of which surpasses that of the first creation.” from the Catholic Catechism

          • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

            entech 12:35 “..the splender of which surpasses that of the first creation.”

            That eighth day deserves some more examination. If we’ve been operating illegally with seven days all this time, we need get this straight. Maybe you, Wanna and I are years younger than we think.

          • Wanna B Sure says:

            You are a fine one to make accusations of blasphemy. The #1 blasphemy being against, and denying the Holy Spirit. Which of course is the cause of the bondage of the will. We have been here before. You old blasphemer you.

          • Wanna B Sure says:

            I can see it now. Jon will move to have another day included in the blue laws.All business locked up Saturday,( and ) Sunday.

          • entech says:

            Wanna, I am sure you will correct me if I am wrong.
            I don’t want to be picky about this, but, is Jon the one who keeps saying bring back the sabbath observance. Because I always thought his view was the opposite.

          • Wanna B Sure says:

            I thought your understand was correct, but with Jon’s concern about age in his 12:35, I thought he may have changed his position.
            Or was it just a stupid reply to a stupid statement?

          • entech says:

            You weren’t that stupid, you can only work with what you have got. :)

          • Wanna B Sure says:

            I take that as an agreement—–I think.

          • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

            My calculation goes like this. If we are allotted a specific number of weeks in our lives, the more days in the week, the longer we live. Eight days are better than seven days. Maybe I’m missing something here, but when eight days are in the Bible, maybe we need to refigure. :)

          • Wanna B Sure says:

            Jon; I didn’t say 8 days in a week. A little eisegetics on your part, and really quite silly.

          • entech says:

            Of course you can think that there is agreement in place, somewhere, someplace, There may be a little eisegesis on your part.
            Depends on what you thought was the stupid statement.

          • Wanna B Sure says:

            Not worthy of further discussion

          • Wanna B Sure says:

            Subject matter that is.

          • entech says:

            Oh I agree, silly topic anyway, I wonder who introduced that 8th days nonsense into a discussion on the evangelical belief in magic and the problems with the design of this earth. 1:52 pm

          • Wanna B Sure says:

            The problems of design was not part of “the 8th day” . That which is related to “the 8th day”, is beyond your understanding/ appreciation, thus the “nonsense”. That’s OK. It is your world view.

          • entech says:

            I understand completely, the 8th day concept is an invention of early Christianity along with the trinity.

            The problem is that so many people will not accept that it never happened. More than half the world in fact.

          • Wanna B Sure says:

            “will not accept that it never happened” Hmmmmmm. Hard to follow if I understand your context. Probably a mis-speak.

          • Wanna B Sure says:

            If however, your ; “… so many people will not accept that it never happened,”, was intended as such, the problem is yours, not mine. As it is our contention that it indeed did happen.

          • Wanna B Sure says:

            Or… the 3rd alternative is; A purposefull slip of tongue to match your personally defined British sense of humor and sarcasm. Placing you not really worthy of farther serious discussion.

          • entech says:

            OK in simple terms:
            About one third of the world identifies as Christian. Therefore, More than half the world in fact. does not identify as Christian.
            No one could actually workout what percentage of that third accept the trinity.
            In fact it would be hard to work out what percentage actually agreed on who was and who was not a Christian by others claiming to be Christian. I was even in discussion on this site with someone who told to stop referring to Catholics as Christians, and they were the first Christians – at least the first organised as such by the formal declarations and creeds, prior to that it would best be referred to as the Jesus Movement. The Jesus movement had a few versions of the saviour that were not part of a trinity, not even the son of God; adopted when baptised by John for instance.
            It seems that some only include the JWs, Mormons, Catholics etc. when the numbers need to be increased.

            Now which part of “more than half” do you fail to understand? Can more than half be accepted as many? Given the percentages and doubts about who is who and what is what, and that you are correct about misspeak I will rephrase and correct what I meant, many people in the world today, quite a lot more than half, do not believe that there was resurrection, quite a large proportion don’t believe there was a divinity, a son of God, to be resurrected.
            Now according to your distorted logic this is my problem because it is your contention that it is all true. Mostly I give up and leave you to it, but sometimes it is too boring. You are wrong, not humour, not sarcasm, just an honestly held opinion – because your contention is such that it did happen does not make it so, if you wish to contend that it is a fact then some demonstration rather than words is needed, you could if you really wanted to refer to that requirement as evidence.

            Incidentally you could be a minority of one and the rest of the universe wrong, less likely as the proportions change but still possible. By proportions changing I mean varying from everyone to one against up to everyone to one in favour. Even if everyone except one agreed it does not mean that that one is wrong, but he/she would need a very good case.

          • Wanna B Sure says:

            “The problem is that so many people will not accept that it never happened, more than half the world in fact”. Your words, Mr. Riddle. Riddle your way out.

            You are clear though in the fact that more than half of the world does not identify as Christian. (That’s another clue to your ridddddle.)

            You presented a riddlel which even you can’t figure out.

            This is the 2nd time you have had the opportunity.

          • Wanna B Sure says:

            Entech Where are you? Checking up on your double negatives?

          • Wanna B Sure says:

            Entech; Mr. negativity gets caught in a double negative. I can see why you have a problem with the Bible when you can’t even understand your own words.

          • entech says:

            Patience, my boy, supper time for me, finish your coffee, back soon.

          • Wanna B Sure says:

            A simple “OOPS ” will do.

          • Wanna B Sure says:

            If your after supper response is long and wordy, as per usual, I won’t bother to read it.

          • Wanna B Sure says:

            Are your breakfast eggs served “sunny side down” in Australia?

          • entech says:

            OK short and sweet.
            WBS 18th 1:52pm – 8th day reference.
            ME 19th 12:07 am – last para. “Perhaps the 8th day is the first day of the new creation,” indicating I understood the reference.
            WBS 12:25 am pedantry about 8th day, indicating you didn’t actually read my post but as usual attack the non-believer.

            The rest: you say Jon would want an extra day of no trading, interpret that as meaning in the same week. Then start abusing about not meaning that at all, everyone is dumb except you etc.
            I try to point out your Christian reinterpretation of creation was not really relevant to the initial thread.
            Finally, I confess it is easy to make double negative mistakes when you are writing quickly @ 12:18.

            It still stands, though, that you are essentially wrong. @ 4:39.

          • Wanna B Sure says:

            The 4;39 was your rambling, not mine. You seem to think that the more words you throw out, the more significant your point is. Not so.

          • Wanna B Sure says:

            Of course, there is the saying that “If you throw enough $hit, some will stick to the wall.” I see much of this here.

          • entech says:

            Sorry if you don’t have the attention span to read a longish post, notice yours are frequent and short, except when you give one of your pedantic pieces on some aspect of theology.

            On the subject of throwing stuff, you have the biggest hands I know off.

            good night.

          • Wanna B Sure says:

            “Hands” is not the subject. The “stuff” you throw is. And you have much to share. Much of it out of context, and irrelevent.

  8. Avatar of Mac Mac says:

    There are a number of spiritual gay people who predict blessing will flow freely to the citizens of Minnesota because they have demonstrated kindness and acceptance of their fellow man.

    The first glimmer of this was Michelle Bachmann’s threat to leave the state.

    • Brad says:

      I would agree, certainly it makes more sense than the notion that God is going to punish Minnesota for demonstrating kindness and acceptance.

      As to Michelle Bachmann, one can only hope she makes good on that threat, and God help those who live wherever she may move to. I just don’t want her in ND, we already have too many right wing kooks.

      • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

        Brad 1:14 “I just don’s want her in ND, we already have too many right wing kooks.”

        Great thought. We should have a rally at the location we use here in Fargo for political statements, in front of the Post Office. We could have signs and chants, “Michele, move to Wisconsin, where they make beer, but don’t move here!

  9. JB says:

    Jon: “Now that Minnesota has passed a gay marriage bill, someone is predicting cold winters.”
    And in other news the Sun rose in the East again this morning.
    Maybe they were referring to hell freezing over?

    • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

      JB 4:11 “Maybe they were referring to hell freezing over?”

      Suspicious were the wild fires in Northwestern Minnesota that just happened. Could it be God sent dry weather with high winds, then convinced some gullible person to burn a little trash, then blew the fires all over the area? I don’t quite understand why God would burn an area known for conservative religion and politics when liberal areas like Minneapolis/St. Paul should be the target. Maybe it serves as a warning, we don’t know. : )

  10. Michael Ross says:

    And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. “(Luke 17:26-28)

    “Marrying and giving in marriage” Hmmm, does that mean the institution of marriage is in the same condition as in Noah’s time? Does it mean gay “marriage”?
    I believe Luke has answered this:

    “It was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building; but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed (vs 29-30)

    “Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.” For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.” (2 Peter 3: 3-7)

    • Brad says:

      I’d say the corporate fascists rich greed mongers have the absolute most to worry about based on those passages.

      • Michael Ross says:

        I don’t disagree but they are the societal manipulators that push gender confusion including gay “marriage”. They are making complete idiots of the American public that accepts feminism and homosexuality.

    • Brad says:

      Actually, the God being described is essentially a terrorist. Either be extremely afraid and do exactly what the terrorist demands, or there will be a mass killing and you will be slaughtered by the terrorist.

      • Michael Ross says:

        “God being described is essentially a terrorist.”

        Right you are Brad:

        “The exercise of justice is joy for the righteous, But is terror to the workers of iniquity”(Proverbs 21:15)

  11. entech says:

    While thinking of Omar’s take on reward and punishment, and how one is as phony and transparent as the other I remembered a little section that would apply to who does what with whom.
    This from the ‘Book of Pots’

    And, strange to tell, among that Earthen Lot
    Some could articulate, while others not:
    And suddenly one more impatient cried—

    “Who *is* the Potter, pray, and who the Pot?”

    Then said another—”Surely not in vain
    “My Substance from the common Earth was ta’en,
    “That He who subtly wrought me into Shape
    “Should stamp me back to common Earth again.”

    Another said—”Why, ne’er a peevish Boy,
    “Would break the Bowl from which he drank in Joy;
    “Shall He that *made* the Vessel in pure Love
    “And Fancy, in an after Rage destroy!”

    None answer’d this; but after Silence spake
    A Vessel of a more ungainly Make:

    “They sneer at me for learning all awry;
    “What! did the Hand then of the Potter shake?”

    Said one—”Folk of a surly Tapster tell
    “And daub his Visage with the Smoke of Hell;
    “They talk of some strict Testing of us—Pish!
    “He’s a Good Fellow, and ‘t will all be well.”

    From here we get the old thing about free will, “God might have made you queer but you don’t have to act it out! “.
    Consider freewill, did God have the freewill to prevent his hand from shaking?

    To egregiously miss-quote Epicurus:
    Is he both able and willing?
    Then whence cometh homosexuality?
    Is he neither able nor willing?
    Then why call him God?

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