The Long-Standing Tension Between Rome and American Catholics.

I must confess to not understanding much about the world Catholic Church.  From what I have observed as an outsider, many rituals seem to have been altered to accommodate cultures around the world.  Yet, Rome comes down hard on the U. S. when its Catholics have a different take on the faith.

For example, Rome changed the English version of mass was changed a little in the last year.  There was hair splitting about the meaning of words which had to be decided in the Vatican.

Then, the new Pope, said to have a different idea of how to conduct Vatican business, came down on the side of ”controlling” the Sisters here in the U. S.  There is no room in the inn for deviations from the company line.

From the attached link, I learned Rome will allow some accommodation to local customs, but the  line is carefully drawn.  The European model of oneness between church and state is different than the U. S. model of political accommodation to changing societal norms.

It is interesting the “European” version of the church is very conservative.  Yet, European society has lost interest in Christianity even more than has happened in the U. S.

It seems inevitable church scandals and growing public indifference to the faith will bring the Catholic Church to be something different than it has been.  It would be well served by acknowledging the popularity of birth control and gay marriage mean the old dogmas are falling on deaf ears.

http://www.firstthings.com/onthesquare/2013/04/american-church-the-dark-joy-of-exclusion

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About Jon Lindgren

I am a former President of the Red River Freethinkers in Fargo, ND, a retired NDSU economics professor and was Mayor of Fargo for 16 years. There is more about me at Wikipedia.com.
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18 Responses to The Long-Standing Tension Between Rome and American Catholics.

  1. JB says:

    The link to this article from facebook fails (not found or something).

  2. entech says:

    I use Firefox and find that right click and then select open in new tab works fine. Other browsers will be similar, right click on the link and select a suitable option from the pop up menu.

  3. entech says:

    For example, Rome changed the English version of mass was changed a little in the last year. There was hair splitting about the meaning of words which had to be decided in the Vatican.

    Actually about a thousand years ago there was a bigger split over a word or two.

  4. Henry says:

    Jon:”It is interesting the “European” version of the church is very conservative. Yet, European society has lost interest in Christianity even more than has happened in the U. S.”

    They have had two consecutive generations of fathers in the twentieth century who were unable to bring their families to church due to two major wars that culled away many men.

    The statistics aren’t good to the church if the men do not attend with their families. The next generation statistically has a minor chance of going to church if their father did not regularly attend. I believe the hardships of war caused the problems in Europe.

    • entech says:

      The failure of the Vatican to effectively oppose Hitler could be a contributing factor.

      Nobel prize winner and Holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel, explained his disbelief in a divinity by asking, “Where was God at Auschwitz?”

      Perhaps the returned soldiers may have asked: “Where was the Catholic Church at Auschwitz?”

      • Wanna B Sure says:

        There is a book by Peter Eisner “Pope PiusXI Last Crusade”. Think there was a brief review on Huffpost religion a while back. Pius XI died of ???? before Pius XII , (the Pope of WW2 ). Pius XI was outspoken against Hitler and the Nazis. There is presented a question or two as to his death. I don’t know, but it is interesting.

    • entech says:

      World War Two Brought the Americans Back to Church

      ‘A War-Worried Mankind Finds Comfort in the Faith of Our Fathers’
      Click Magazine, 1942

      When the CLICK MAGAZINE article (attached herein) appeared on the newsstands at the close of 1942, the American people were fully committed to a war on two fronts that quite often was not generating the kinds of headlines they would have preferred reading. As a result, Americans turned to the church for spiritual and emotional support:
      “Two years ago most churches were considered fortunate if forty-five people attended the morning service; today devout worshipers fill the pews morning and night.”

      Henry, Wrong again.

      • Henry says:

        entech:”“World War Two Brought the Americans Back to Church”

        We can agree on that. We didn’t lose as many men, nor suffer as much trauma as Europe did, and although some Americans suffered significant loss and trauma, it wasn’t as widespread as Europe. We had many men who came back and brought their families to church. Certainly, exceptions exist.

        entech:“Henry, Wrong again.”

        Entech, your analysis is superficial, again. I know you can’t help it with your B&W tendencies.

        • Avatar of realist realist says:

          Henry, I think the reasons Europeans do not attend church services are much more complex than not having men in a family to take the family to church. In fact, I don’t believe that is much of a factor at all. Interestingly, the European countries with the smallest church attendance are also the ones with the smallest mortality rates among men during WWII. So Finland, for example, with a relatively small mortality rates in WWII has the lowest church attendance rates, but don’t let facts get in the way of your assertions, Henry old boy.

          • Henry says:

            r, it was qualified as my belief. As far as Finland, your correlation is impressive, but you will have to dig a little deeper. Finland was officially a neutral country during the cold war, however, its influences onto it were largely Soviet.

            One of the wars of Europe in the 20th century was the Russian Civil War of the Russian Revolution. The net result was the belief system of atheism was required and thrust upon Soviet citizens. Soviet society and those it influenced became atheist.

            I believe the hardships of war caused the problems in Europe.

          • Avatar of realist realist says:

            Finland fought against the Soviets long and hard during the WWII. They have lived next to Russia for a long time now and generally do not regard the Russians with any favor, disparaging them when they can. The influence you cite is one of brute force over time that is not reflective of the sentiments of the people themselves. I understand your desire to base your opinion on your belief rather than on facts because they do not support them.

          • Henry says:

            r:“They have lived next to Russia for a long time now and generally do not regard the Russians with any favor, disparaging them when they can.”

            Yeah right. Ok. Keep believing that.
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finlandization

          • Avatar of realist realist says:

            Henry, the Finlanization you refer to is done under duress; the Finns resist it with every ounce of strength they have and for the most part, they are successful at that. The Swedes are a much larger influence on the Finns. The Russians are reviled and are not considered a group who’s mores are welcome in the country. But, hey, believe what you want.

          • Henry says:

            It is what I read. Your Swedish narrative I did not read.

          • entech says:

            I have been to Finland in my seagoing days. Fiercely independent and proud of fighting off Russian attempts at annexation, they had a huge advantage in the skill of their ski-troops in a terrain where tanks etc. can’t go. They were a Swedish colony for a long time.

          • Henry says:

            I only know some of the written history, not the tales of a seafaring atheist.

            The other problem the wars brought onto Europe in the twentieth century was the resulting socialism in the vacuums of power and supply. It was necessary to feed Europe during these times off of the donated sweat equity of capitalists overseas. However, the trend of reliance on the state continued beyond these times and was not pared back adequately. They still struggle with socialism. The result: the state eventually becomes their god. Of course some exceptions. I believe the hardships of war caused the problems in Europe.

          • entech says:

            It was necessary to feed Europe during these times off of the donated sweat equity of capitalists overseas. profiteering more like.

            I believe the hardships … your beliefs on this like your beliefs in general and the universe in particular bear no relationship to reality.

          • Henry says:

            entech:“profiteering more like.”

            If there was any profiteering, it was on the Europeon end. I could see that being very plausible.

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