What’s the Most Exaggerated Claim Against Gay Marriage?

If I tried to come up with the most cockamamie negative response I could to gay marriage, I could not compete with the ones being said seriously.  They are from minds gone amok.  I’ll list a few:

1.) Christians will be forced underground.

2.)It will stop children being born, ruin capitalism.

3.)Being against gay marriage is like being in the civil rights movement.

4.)Gays and lesbians hate God’s laws, to they hate God.

5.)Gays and lesbians don’t really want to get married, they just want to ruin marriage for everyone else.

It’s clear people who have said such ridiculous things do not like gays or gay marriage, but don’t want to admit this is the reason they are opposed.  They feel compelled to dream up some reason outside their own personal distaste for it.

They have been unsuccessful at coming up with a good reason to hide their bad reason.  I would expect them to continue to try.

Of course, there are those who make money opposing gay marriage.   Tony Perkins of the Family Research Council tells subscribers money is needed.  I suspect it’s cash cow for such organizations, even as they lose.

Opponents never mention that gay marriage will increase the stability of gay households, insuring more family care of household members and less government funded care. Nor, do they mention Gay marriage will allow less wasteful expenditures on family finances such as inheritance.

It’s impossible to deny, gay marriage is a good thing.

http://www.alternet.org/christian-right-panicking-because-they-know-they-are-losing?akid=10291.292072.EdROyE&rd=1&src=newsletter820402&t=8&paging=off

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I am a former President of the Red River Freethinkers in Fargo, ND, a retired NDSU economics professor and was Mayor of Fargo for 16 years.
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55 Responses to What’s the Most Exaggerated Claim Against Gay Marriage?

  1. Brad says:

    The single greatest problem with gay marriage is the homophobic fear of it and the hysteria that drives people to believe any and all sorts of myths, wives tales, urban legends, and other wild exaggerations.

    In some cases, the homophobic fear is based on sexual identity problems the homophobe has not resolved within themselves. In some cases they are actually gays themselves, either in denial about it or at least in the closet.

  2. Michael Ross says:

    “4.)Gays and lesbians hate God’s laws, to they hate God.”

    They reject the God of the Bible who clearly judges sin.. The god they believe in is namby-pamby, lovey-dovey, sweetness and light, sugar and spice and all things nice. The do not believe in the righteous Judge of the whole earth. If they truly did, they would change there behavior in a hurry and forget all that “God made me that way” drivel.

    • entech says:

      Righteous judge, really, what is just about condemning all of humanity for all of time, for the act of two innocents who did not know the consequences of what they were doing. I would much prefer the sweet and gentle God you describe rather than the one you subscribe to jealous, violent and vicious, given to genocide, and hypocritical.
      Hypocritical in the he helped the Hebrews defeat Canaan because they were wicked and evil, yet so many of the books tell of the Hebrews doing exactly the same wicked and evil things yet eventually being rewarded for it.

      The more you read the harder it is to believe.

      • Michael Ross says:

        You raise some legitimate concerns. Maybe this will help:

        http://www.biblegateway.com/blog/2011/10/is-god-a-moral-monster/

        • entech says:

          Well it does remind me of one thing, Lee Strobel is a legitimate concern.

          Genocide; God didn’t really mean it or say it, it was all hyperbole. Paul Copan says that in Joshua you read that “There were no Anakim left in the land”, and later Caleb asks permission to drive them from the hills. This is interpreted as a reflection of the exaggeration, to me this sought of thing reflects the idea that the books were written by men with men’s agendas in mind. The writer could quite easily forget something written earlier when he was having a Dan Brown moment, but if this were inspired such errors should not be there.

          We could go on for hours, there are probably many volumes written about it. My view is that there is so much wrong that you cannot claim it is inerrant, if part of it is wrong then all of it could be. I do agree with Copan in some ways, I have said before that I think the Jewish Bible was put into writing about 5-6 hundred BCE, it was assembled by the tribes of Judah (only a couple left, so no one to argue) and written to glorify the tribe, the commands from God are there to justify their bloodthirsty story, to offload the blame but not detract from the glory. The tradition of the scapegoat comes to mind.

          • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

            entech 4:47 “..the Jewish Bible was written about 5-6 BCE..assembled…to glorigy the tribe, the commands from God are there to justify their bloodthirsy story, ot offload the blame but not detract from the glory..scapegoat comes to mind.”

            A wonderful summary of what the Bible really is. To illustrate how right you are, we do not see the devout Christians here defending the 2.5 million recorded kills in the Bible by the god, nor the estimated 25 million killed by the god but not reported by numerical account. Perhaps it is our Christian friends, here, are not able to believe with the same certainty they once did. Might they conclude, the good things written about the god really happened, not the killing. Maybe they will someday join us as skeptics of the whole thing.

        • entech says:

          I took you seriously for a moment, now I find you just cut and paste the same thing to Mac, Mac is Christian I am not.

  3. S.K. Haugen says:

    what you touched on, Jon, about an individual’s personal feelings about gay people or sexuality in general. you may not like smoking, so let’s take away cigarettes from everyone. whoops, bad example.

  4. Juan says:

    Gays and lesbians should be allowed to marry and suffer just like the rest of us.
    :-)

  5. Avatar of Mac Mac says:

    Michael, you are wrong.

    I know that because I read it in the Bible and I have thousands of people who agree with me.

  6. Avatar of Mac Mac says:

    The recent tactic used by anti-gay marriage groups is “Which parent can a child do without? A mother or a father?”

    This makes no sense. If gay people are allowed to marry, will straight parents be forced to separate? Will children have to choose which parent stays and which leaves?

    No.

    If gay marriage remains illegal, will that keep gay couples from sharing life and raising children should they choose?

    No.

    • Michael Ross says:

      The high divorce rate, unmarried couples co-habitating, and now the final horror, gay “marriage” all show that our culture no longer honors and upholds the sanctity of marriage.

      • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

        Michael 2:17 “The high divorce rate, unmarried couples and now the final horror, gay marriage all show our culture no longer honors and upholds the sanctity of marriage.”

        Strange you should say, “no longer…upholds the sancitity..” What I’m promoting is more marriage, you are promoting less.

  7. entech says:

    I like forced underground. People keep telling us about the horrors of the persecution of the early Jesus Movement, driven underground, but that is when all of its writings were produced and the word was being spread far and wide and quickly.

  8. Avatar of Mac Mac says:

    Michael, is it possible the blip in time of one man, one woman was the anomaly, and the human norm is one man and as many wives (or sex partners) as he can afford?

    After all, one man and women as property is biblical marriage. The spin put on it currently is a product of women’s lib of the 60′s and 70′s, probably crafted to make the women shut up for once.

    Unfortunately, it got out of hand.

  9. Henry says:

    Jon: “What’s the Most Exaggerated Claim”

    That homosexual marriage is a good thing.

    • Wolfy32 says:

      Henry, you have yet to provide even biblical proof that gay marriage is wrong. I believe in the teachings of Christ and that there is an all powerful God being out there somewhere. Yet, I have yet to see a single verse (not even one single Bible verse) posted that says anything about Being gay is a sin. Incest was even condoned in the old testament between a father and his two daughters. Yet, there’s nothing anywhere that I’ve seen where Biblically being Gay is actually wrong?

      I understand it may be people’s instincts, fears, insecurities, that’s fine, but then don’t blame God for one’s own insecurities.

      • Henry says:

        Check out the OT and NT. Don’t blame God for it being in there.

        • Wolfy32 says:

          That’s not an exact verse. I’ve had many OT and NT classes from Catholic university and public university on both aspects of the bible, done many of my own studies and have been in church for 5+ hours a week for much of my life. I’ve not seen a single verse that says anything about homosexuality being a sin… Please give us exact citations.

          • Henry says:

            Wolf32“I’ve not seen a single verse that says anything about homosexuality being a sin…”

            If that is the case, what I say will not convince you. Perhaps first start with a dose of Murine. That will perhaps assuage the itchiness.

          • Wolfy32 says:

            “If that is the case, what I say will not convince you.”

            That’s because you haven’t said anything yet. And I was asking you a legitimate question. The only stories I know of where there could have been an implication of homosexuality is the stories of Sodom and Gamorrah. However, all it really says is that the level of “Fornication” had reached heaven.

            And even then, that was 1000 times worse than homosexuality of today. The story portrays the entire town to be RAPISTS. This isn’t just a couple guys asking a couple guys out for lunch or coffee. It’s a story of the entire town wanting to gangrape new people.

            I think The US or any nation on this planet would invade and/or destroy any town or country that advocated public gang-rapes.

            The story has nothing to do with homosexuality and everything to do with the violation and EVIL / VILENESS of gang rape.. Which if Henry or anyone needs a definition of gang-rape, I believe it’s the repeated violation of one’s body by 3 or more people. In this case it was nearly the entire town — a mob had formed so, maybe anywhere from 50 to several hundred…All wanting to gangrape a couple new people.

            There was definately something wrong… And it wasn’t homosexuality. I haven’t heard of a lot of homosexual gang rapes… And even if there were, there would be an extreme prison sentence. Sanctioning gay marriage does not sanction gay gang rape.

          • Henry says:

            Wolf32“That’s because you haven’t said anything yet.”

            I have nothing that can stand to your mighty appeal to authority. Your mind is made up. It could be that even Murine will not help.

          • entech says:

            Henry at last you are approaching the truth:
            “I have nothing … “, it has taken such a long time for you to recognise this.

            The rest is simply projection of you failings onto others.
            ” … that can stand to your mighty appeal to authority.” What greater appeal to authority than the great fictional work that you pick and choose from.
            “Your mind is made up. ” 100% projection. Interestingly a virtue of it agrees with you.
            “It could be that even Murine will not help.” There is some rubbish in that book of yours about itching ears, guessing that is what you refer to.

          • Wolfy32 says:

            I’m obliged to agree with Entech here. It sounds like your mind is 100% made up Henry… I was asking for proof and instead you attacked me. No one has given me any proof whatsoever.. “The least of these that have not sinned throw your stones first.” I have not thrown any stones.. Yet, you threw yours.

            I wanted any biblical justification because I seriously wanted biblical justification for why God says homosexuality is wrong. Yet, I have not gotten any from the Athiests or the Christians alike.. This is not an afront to faith. It’s coming to terms that we have all sinned and our sin is not in letting “homosexuals win” it is in realizing that Christians have this God complex that says that no matter what they are right. When asked for proof, “because God said so”, does not make it true unless there’s evidence of his words.

            These people, nor homosexuality do not change my faith, in fact they strengthen it… (Sorry Athiests). I don’t believe in the “church” anymore. I do believe in God. Too much evidence in the universe, in my very humble opinion, for something not to be out there. I just don’t adhere to the Christian political rhetoric. Absolute power corrupts absolutely and that applies to religious political leaders as well as government leadership.

  10. Michael Ross says:

    “What’s the Most Exaggerated Claim Against Gay Marriage?”

    Regarding studies regarding homosexual couples and violence, a recent study by the
    Canadian government regarding homosexual couples states that “violence was twice as common among homosexual couples compared with heterosexual couples”.[2] According the American College of Pediatricians who cite several studies violence among homosexual couples is two to three times more common than among married heterosexual couples.[3] In addition, the American College of Pediatricians states the following: “Homosexual partnerships are significantly more prone to dissolution than heterosexual marriages with the average homosexual relationship lasting only two to three years.”[3]

    http://www.conservapedia.com/Homosexual_Couples_and_Domestic_Violence

    “Gay” used to mean happy. Now for many it means misery.

    • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

      Michael 4:34 re: violence more common among homosexual couples

      I read that on another Christian site as well. Assuming it is true, does it have anything to do with straight marriages? Marriage is a new concept among gay couples and many variables affect it. It you went to an inner city slum, you would expect to find more violence of many kinds, including domestic violence. The frequency of domestic violence is a topic that has nothing to do with laws against gay marriage.

      • Wanna B Sure says:

        If I understand it correctly, “domestic violence” has nothing to do with marriage of any kind. With the rate of “out of wedlock” births especially in the inner city slums incereasing, and outside too, one would think it would be a more “loving” life style? Or is it more like; bag-em, boink’em, & dump-em. Sounds like a law firm on Lake street. Mpls. The institution of marriage is becoming a novel concept almost anywhere. Move in for a week, and it becomes domestic.

        • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

          Wanna 1:35 “The institution of marriage is becoming a novel concept almost everywhere.”

          That is exactly why all of us who believe in the institution of marriage should support legal marriage for gays.

          • Wanna B Sure says:

            Looks to me that it is more of a tax issue, and access to sick people. That could be changed. After all, isn’t it “domestic? Seems to be on “Cops”. If a man beats his boyfriend, he is arrested for domestic violence. At least he would be able to visit him in the hospital emergency ward, then nurse him back to health if he got home, and collect the benefits if he died. ——Or—–is it more about approval and validation? Only the Shadow knows.

          • Wolfy32 says:

            We’ll have to have a lot more lawyers!!! If the Gay divorce rate is equal to that of hetero divorce rates.. Imagine how many more lawyers we’ll have to have… And we’ll have gay married men leaving marriages to be hetero! Hee hee.

            We can’t allow gay people to get married because we’ll run out of divorce lawyers… God knows Hetero married people need them all right now. :)

          • Wanna B Sure says:

            “Domestics” don’t need lawyers, (unless they commit domestic violence.) More lawyers= more employment. Good for the economy. Go violence.

    • Avatar of realist realist says:

      You are cherry-picking your studies. For every study you cite, there are others that reach the opposite conclusion. The studies you are using do not accurately reflect the current state of gay relationships. Years ago, with many gay people not advertising their relationships, the face of gay life was presumed to be that of one night stands. Your studies are reflective of that anachronistic element of gay relationships. If you are interested in further reducing any violence that does occur, it seems to me you would welcome the additional stability that marriage would provide to a gay couple.

  11. Brad says:

    I wonder if there is a point where homophobes will just allow gays to live as they please? Just leave them the hell alone. Marriage or not, they are going to be who they are.

    • Avatar of realist realist says:

      Our current conspiracy theorists just love to speculate on all sorts of unlikely events. This articles focuses on the EXTREME right wing of Christian fundamentalism that would include the fringe group displaying their hate-filled signs at military funerals ascribing all negative events to homosexuality as well as the EXTEME right wing Christians who find killing doctors who perform abortions as a God-given right. These groups are toxic and I hope they are driven underground, or better yet, eliminated through appropriate legal action. What paranoid Christians have done is take the huge leap of logic to state that ALL Christians are persecuted. This is garbage and any sane person knows it. Your fear that this is actually true doesn’t really pass scrutiny if you just allow yourself some time to think it through.

      • Wolfy32 says:

        I was going to say, if anything extreme Christian Fundamentalism is what will trigger Christians being labelled as terrorists or extremists. And once that’d done those Extreme Christians will get what they are after… A government entity coming down on them hard and triggering persecuation of many christians. Just as Muslims were persecuted and targeted after 9/11.

        Those extreme Christians are far more dangerous to all of Christianity than Gay and Lesbians will ever be!!

        • Avatar of seaofstories seaofstories says:

          Then where are the reasonable and moderate Christians who will stand up and say “Enough! This is not who we are. You do not represent me.” to the radical elements? WWJD?

    • entech says:

      Another article on the same site talks about Texas education system, other people talk about Texas trying to introduce creationism into schools. A line the Texas Article says it all, “Once you know what to look for, you will see it everywhere.”

      The main article, amongst other things has, ” Some gay activists up in Illinois actually threw concrete brick pavers through the glass doors of one Christian organization in an attempt to intimidate them… ” I would love to know the full context, I would imagine it would self defense, probably against a WBC lookalike.

      Keep it up, “seek and ye shall find”.

  12. Avatar of realist realist says:

    My candidate for the most over the top exaggerated claim is actually not just exaggerated, but is made up of whole cloth. The idea that if you let gay people marry, then allowing people to marry animals can’t be far behind. How anybody with a brain can even entertain this idea is hard to me to imagine.

  13. Wolfy32 says:

    It’s been a while, but, the percentage of Pedophiles when you compare marriage family instances of incest and pedophilia and instances of pedaphiles amongst gay men… And than the rate of pedophilia is much hire amongst the smaller population group of gay men. I can’t remember the rate, but the rate of pedophilia was at least 2-3 times greater than within hetero marriages.

    I’m not at all implying that gay men are child molesters. Not at all!!!! I have much more respect than that for people. However, I’m curious if there’s something psychological here. I don’t know anything about the statistics around lesbian women and child molestation, only on gay men.

    I get the feeling here that on this site the Gay supporters would state that Gays hurt no one. I’m inclined to believe that myself to the extent that Gay people are human and do the same amount of harm that hetero humans do. So, I would expect the statistics to be at least the same as hetero instances. Granted we are only talking known / reported cases. We have no idea how much goes unreported.

    • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

      Wolfy32 re rates of phedophilia

      I have never heard of the statistics you recite, except on Christian anti gay sites. Where I have seen it, the results come from calling males who molest male children “homosexuals”. Males who molest male children are almost alway men who live lives as heterosexuals and say the are attracted to adult females. Attraction to children is regarded as a separate and different condition. I wish you could find or remember where your statistics came from.

      I know of only one academic, peer reviewed, study on this topic. It was done by professors in Denver. They interviewed men incarcerated for abuse of male children. The statistics from this study found just the opposite, hetrosexual male child abusers were more frequent, compared to there population, than homosexual men.

      This study, relied on self identification and the domestic lives of the participants, did they say they were gay or not, and, did they live with a female or male. It is complicated trying to figure out what is actually in people’s heads on this issue.

      • Wolfy32 says:

        Unfortunately, you and I both would indicate it as an unreliable source. More or less as a propaganda machine. It was in an Ethics course at a Catholic University and taught by a priest.

        They also played down the population group that’s gay reciting that gay people are inflating their numbers and in all actuality only 2-4 % of the population is gay vs. 10-12 % that gays say their numbers are.

        I don’t know if there were any actual factual studies on this though. I think a more accurate statement on this is that people attracted to (same sex or not) children have severe mental issues beyond that of homosexuality or Heterosexuality.

        I think the issue is too politcal for there to truly be any unbiased, psychological studies done on it. One variable would have to be what is the level of pressure one feels to be hetero from family, friends, religion, and their social network.

        If they say they’re hetero and feel they’re highly pressured to be hetero does that make them gay or does that mean they live in a very very conservative location? too many variables to really get an accurate picture probably.

        • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

          Wolfy32 3:39 “only 2-4% of the population is gay vs. 10-12% that gays say their number is.”

          My understanding is the number 10% did not come from gays but from the Kinsey Report and used after that by gays and supporters of gay rights. I don’t think anyone regards Kinsey’s numbers as science based–there just are no reliable percentages so far as I know. People have not felt free to self identify as gay, and, some are bisexual. Maybe times are changing and we’ll know more some day.

          • Henry says:

            Jon: “I don’t think anyone regards Kinsey’s numbers as science based”

            Dumping on your boy so soon, Jon? Child pornographer/cinematographer/researcher Kinsey was the basis for the APA amending their DSM, and thus making homosexuality medically legitimate.

          • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

            Henry 10:40 “Dumping your boy (Kinsey) so soon, Jon?”

            Let me see if I can follow you, Henry. The designation of homosexuality as an illness would never had changed if gay people had not lobbied psychiatrists using Kinsey’s conclusions?

            It would have been removed from the illness category soon because it is not an illness.

          • entech says:

            I think you are right Jon, Kinsey’s methodology has been shown to be flawed.
            The only person who seems to take him seriously is Henry.

          • Henry says:

            Jon: “The designation of homosexuality as an illness would never have changed if gay people had not lobbied psychiatrists using Kinsey’s conclusions?”

            You had microphone grabbers coupled with quack researcher/pervert/pedophile defining the medical designation for homosexuality. One just couldn’t make all this up.

          • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

            Henry 11:38 “You had microphone grabbers coupled with quack researcher/perver/pedophine defining the medical designation for homosexuality.”

            There must surely be hunreds of physians today who are homosexual. It must have been true at that time as well. So far as I know, they are as successful as straight physicans. In your little world, they are sick people. If they were or are sick, they could not be successful doctors. That is why the designation was changed.

          • Henry says:

            Jon: “That is why the designation was changed.”

            Jon, using your line of logic, the designation would have been changed long ago under those pretenses. It wasn’t. It coincided with the previous described weirdness.

  14. Dan says:

    Gay marriage is a natural evolution of a deteriorating society. Every great power throughout the beginning of time has fallen at the hands of its enemies or from within. The U.S. began its rapid decline during the early 60s with the hippies. They were the “anything goes” rebels. Drug abuse became rampant and countless numbers succumbed to overdose and mental illness. This was the first stage of American decline. The second stage of decline was when Richard Nixon ended the direct convertibility of the dollar to gold on August 15, 1971. As seen in the ancient Roman Empire, precious metals, initially used in its currency, were slowly phased out due to a failing monetary system. This can be attributed to a need to pay for its constant military conquests. Today we refer to money of no precious metal value as fiat money. It’s only good because the government says it is. America’s last phase in its decline is the destruction of the family. If two people of the same sex can be granted legal status then, why not three people of the same sex? Why not a man and two women or three men and a women? Where will the line be drawn and will marriage even mean anything if it’s distorted beyond recognition…Thus, the plan. Another attack on the family recently came from MSNBC anchor Melissa Harris-Perry who attempted to explain how your children don’t really belong to you — they belong to the collective. This is a progressive ideology that was once shared by George Bernard Shaw and is once again resurfacing. The attacks against the family and the Constitution of the United States will continue. The lib elites who seek to undermine it for their own monetary gain will eventually achieve their desired results and America will fall and a new power will rise to take its place. This is historical fact.

    • Michael Ross says:

      Exactly right Dan. Debasement of currency and moral decadence go hand in hand. Although I would date our slide down the sewer to 1913 and the founding of the Federal Reserve system and fractional reserve banking. Also that year saw the IRS and federal income tax came into being. Positively the worst political year in U.S. history. Look at where we are today: $120 trillion unfunded liabilities of the federal government and men are “marrying” men. How Ironic that our economic system is based on the principles set forth by John Maynard Keynes, a socialist, atheist, and homosexual. God help us!

      • entech says:

        Keynes an unlikely socialist, atheist and homosexual actually irrelevant to economics.

      • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

        Michael 8:19 “Debasement of currency and moral decadence go hand in hand..$120 trillion and men ‘marrying’men.”

        The cause and effect theories I read here are amazing.

        The thing is, Michael, you ignore another influential and sinful economist who also deserves recogniziton. He was Minnesota native, Thorstein Veblen (1857-1929). Veblen went to Carleton College and went on to write, The Theory of the Leisure Class. He gave us the phrase, conspicuous consumption. He was at the University of Missouri in the ’20′s, I studied there in the ’60′s. Our grad student club was called the Veblen-Davenport Society.

        Veblen stayed at universities only for short periods because he had a way with ladies, taking unmarried ladies on European cruises, living in sin on campus and so on.

        So many economists, so little respect for conventional wisdom. :)

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