Several Cardinals and other pundits say the new Pope must carry out “New Evangelism”. What is the world is that?
It’s a new phrase used in religious circles where people want to sound contemporary. I suppose old evangelism was just spreading the word.
I think I’m accurate in understanding new evangelism to be something necessary for the new circumstances. These are the falling numbers in the faith.
According to the link below, for each new Catholic convert, four Catholics leave the faith. The new evangelism is not reaching out to the unsaved masses, it’s trying to save or bring back into the church those “regulars”.
My impression of the Catholic evangelism of the last two Popes was one of constant travel and a steady stream of news releases on every topic that came up. If these techniques have not turned around the numbers, one wonders what might work?
I noticed a recent project to make the faith look as though it was popular among young people. Bishops around the country paid for buses and lodging of young people to attend a national rally. News releases said this was evidence of new enthusiasm.
This reminds me of the old pizza marketing question: If you want to sell more take-out pizza, do you have to improve you pizza, or, just use a better box?
It seems to me the Vatican is locked into one old pizza recipe. New evangelism is a different pizza box.
http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/whats-new-evangelization-thing-anyway
NEW EVANGELISM, and about time something came up to compete with THE NEW ATHEISM.
entech 12:00 “NEW EVANGELIS, and about time something came up to complete with THE NEW ATHEISM.”
Maybe we will have THE NEW HEAVEN and THE NEW HELL. Heck, why not THE NEW SIN.
There can be no new sin, sin is original
True Entech, but some people keep on trying.
Hmmmmm Carnival Barkers come to mind.
There are many in the Catholic Church who are cultural Christians, I was one of them at one time. I sang in choir and sat through the sermons but didn’t have faith that I would ever be good enough for heaven. Many give up the same way I almost did after my divorce.
I was fortunate enough to fall into (guided maybe?) the retreat group I am now part of where the unconditional love I received and the the message that while we are all sinners but God’s grace alone can free us. Turned me around it did. This group is incredible. Former drug addicts/dealers, alcoholic, abusers and the abused sinners of all stripes and none of us expecting to find heaven, but now all saved by Grace.
Now our task to go out to tell others of Gods Grace. I have told you about my prison work and what it has done. We see these people now doing Gods work also.
Our message is one Christ has given us, church isn’t a resort for the righteous, it is a hospital for sinners. To many feel that if they go to church every Sunday they will be good enough for heaven and they ask like the rich man what will make me good enough, they don’t want to do anymore then they have to. The answer is not are you good enough, it is are you willing to give all.
You can no more become a Christian by standing in a church every Sunday then you can become an automobile by standing in your garage. CS Lewis
I can relate to at least some of what you’re saying. I have been through the whole addiction problem, but my faith isn’t based on the idea that I am bad and I sinned and now have been forgiven and therefore saved from addiction.
I see it like this: I was very ill from a devastating disease (which addiction is according to the medical community) and I was treated for the disease and was given the chance to recover. There was certainly a spiritual component to this, but it took a whole lot of work on my part, and a whole lot of help from my family, a treatment center, and professionals trained to deal with this.
I essentially agree with you on God’s grace, because I did experience it (and still do), but I think I view it differently (disease vs. sin).
In any case, I commend you for what you do.
If I gave the the impression it is easy, forgive me.personally it took me 3 years after joining to come to Grace. Admitting my own mistakes and sins was the toughest part. I had all sorts of reasons why it was HER fault. But having seen the stories and watched people change I couldn’t stop going, I wanted what they had. Peace.
Now I would never quit.
I take it you finally came to realise that blame is never one sided, you share blame as well as love.
We lost a few friends because we would not take sides on a break up, so many expected my wife to take the woman’s point of view and me the man’s. The ones that staid friends with us both are amongst the best that we have and not surprisingly although no longer lovers became good friends with each other.
Shut me down if that was too personal.
The only friends I was able to keep were the two gay gentleman. The other men were to afraid of their wives to stand up to them.
Much of what happens to us is brought by our own decisions, what isn’t we can’t do anything about anyway. I work with another group(surprise surprise) of divorced and widowed. My favorite piece of advise comes from St Augustine of Hippo, bitterness is a poison we take, then we wait for the other person to die. With a second team like that Christianity has some pretty good depth.
By the way, nothing is too personal while witnessing, I have spoken before hundreds at one time.
Entech & Stanta, so sad it happened that way for you. I guess thats a hard way to find out who your real friends are.
Good for you Brad! Addictions are tough to get under control and even tougher to keep under control. I admire your strength and determination to stay the course and keep that beast in its cage. I hope you love your new life and find it rewarding.
Brad and Stanta, you both make a great distinction here… I used to believe that humans were evil, corrupt, and worthless, and horrible beings.. That’s what many organized churches want us to believe. And if we follow their rituals, pay our dues, and speak in toungues properly, and whatever else, they would have us do, then, we’re not as corrupt. Oh we’re still corrupt, every day we’re alive we’re corrupt…
Yuck. Makes one believe life isn’t worth living. There’s nothing in life because everything in life is corrupt and icky.
I’ve changed my view to be a little less cynical. God wouldn’t want to see his creations as icky and dirty. Yes, we make mistakes, we get sick in the mind, and do things wrong, so do children.. He said “Suffer the children unto me, for such is the kingdom.” I imagined billions of kids all misbehaving miscreants with that verse. But, no, it’s that we’re innocent, and beautiful beings that he loves regardless of our wrongdoings at times, regardless of how sick we are.. The church’s teach unconditional love, then put conditions on God’s love…
Unconditional love is not conditional on anything for it to be truely unconditional. I think most churches forget that part. I have since taken the attitude that yes People due dumb things, are very sick in some or many cases, but, human life is an amazing thing and beautiful in so many ways, that it’s something to be celebrated not despised!
beautiful. through love prayer and sacrifice we will change the world! all we have to do is open our hearts and allow god to work through us as instuments to his will. pray, hope, and dont worry. padre pio:)
Great story Santa. Thanks for sharing. The journey for peace and understanding is often difficult, but your sins are no more or no less than your neighbor. You sound like a very rich man.
Only in friends and faith, doing a bit better now, sold off some extras. But pay day loads was my friend for a few months.
Jon, your question “New Evangelism – What in the world is that” is a good question. Many Catholics (perhaps even most) don’t know the answer to your question, which is evidense of a deep spiritual problem within the Church. Thankfully, the Spirit lead Pope Benedict to recognize this, which is why it’s the new “buzz word.”
The word evangelize gives many Catholics an umcomfortable feeling because individual evangelization hasn’t been a strong suite of most Catholics. Most Catholics associate the word with Protestant faiths. Protestants have doen a much better job of recognizing the Christian calling to Evangelize – spread the good news of the Gospels.
It is easy to pass-off the “New Evangelization” as a slick marketing skeem. And in a lot of ways, it is marketing. But not in the sense you or many others perceive it. The heart of the Church is to bring it’s body to a closer and deeper realtionship with Jesus Christ. It’s marketing to gain souls in Heaven and strength in Christ, not marketing for earthly possessions or money. Your analogy of a “pizza box” is laughable. You either have no idea what Faith means to a Christian, or you are just compleately inconsiderate to compare it to a slice of pizza.
“Inconsiderate” wasn’t the right choice of words because your post didn’t hurt my feelings, nor do I perceive it as selfish. “Foolish” is more fitting.
There should be no reason for Catholics to feel uncomfortable with the idea of evangelizing. After the first few hundred years when the doctrines were formalised most of the effort was in Christianising most of the old Roman and Greek Empires. When the Spanish and Portuguese began their voyages of discovery and expansion many years later, Catholic evangelists were with the first explorers; Ignatius of Loyola started the Jesuit movement which first reached South America, Japan and lots of places.
So nothing really NEW about Catholics as Evangelists.
What became the evangelical and fundamentalist movements in America is something different.
Entech; Very true. Several words used today have different flavors and meanings from years past. “Evangelical” is one. With the “Great Comission”(…go and make desciples of all nations”…) was to evangelize the world. What the evangelicals and fundamentalist movement has done is add baggage to the term. Many denominations avoid the use of the term “evangelical” due to this baggage, and opportunity for misunderstanding. In the secular world, and even to a degree in church definition, the classical word “liberal” has taken on bagage also. To the point many Democrats avoid the term “liberal”. In the past, sending children to a college for liberal arts was not to make little democrats out of them. The content of the language has changed over the years. It is unfortunate so many don’t take the time to understand.
Wanna 2:00 “Several words used today have different flavors and meanings from years past.”
If you are like me, that is one of the interesting things, or maybe frustrating things, about having lived a long time–how language changes. I find myself resisting using most new words in new ways. Inevitably, I eventually cave.
A current one I’m resisting is the phrase, “informed by”. I guess it means something like, “influenced by”, or, “aware of”, but it seems like moving from words that were somewhat precise to ones that are less precise.
You will become accustomed to these things ‘going forward’
Entech, unfortunately most Catholics see evangelization as the priests job. Like they don’t have enough to do already. Many this my groups are a little on the fringes too, although if they give us a chance they seem to respect us. The problem with most is, like me , they are doing ok and don’t see any reason to rock the boat. Our best teachers are those who have hit bottom, they are also our best healers when those who are OK come crashing down too.
Dustin 11:39 “..but not in the sense you..perceive it. The heart of the Church is to bring it’s body to a closer and deeper relationship with Jesus Christ. It’s marketing to gain souls in Heaven and strength in Christ…
I agree you have an personal understanding of the Church I do not have. I used the pizza box analogy because I believe the Church is not what your own personal feelings might happen to be, or, what theological documents or Popes might think it to be, but what the average Joe and Jane in the pews think it to be.
I know there are many views held by folks in the pews, all we have to go on is surveys of their thinking. Those surveys show almost all Catholic use artificial birth control. The majority favor gay rights. These views are strongest among young people. Young people are leaving the chruch. Thus, to change the pizza in the box is to change the Church’s views to those of the folks in the pews. To change the box only is to keep the same dogma that people disagree with.
If those are the thoughts of a fool, then that’s what I am.
If polled, the majority of children would say they like playing with matches. Thankfully, children have parents to protect them from themselves. Thankfully adults have the Church to protect them from themsleves. Now that’s not to say there aren’t bad Church leaders; just as there are bad parents. Any church made up of humans will have sin inside it’s walls.
You can’t change the “pizza” in the box, even if you wanted to. God’s truth is and will be forevor.
Dustin 3:12 “You can’t change the ‘pizza’ in the box, even if you waned to. God’s truth is and will be forever.”
I’m afraid this is not true. It has changed and will continue. Just wait.
It absolutely hasn’t changed. Man’s understanding of God’s will has at times changed (more like evoloved), but His truth is eternal.
Dustin 4:24 “It absolutely hasn’t changed. Man’s understanding of God’s will has at time changed (more like evolved), but his truth is eternal.”
That’s my point. “Man’s understanding of God’s will” has changed, and, at any moment it is different among believers. If we don’t agree on what “God’s will” is, then we obviously don’t know it has not changed. We do know “Man’s understanding”. The Catholic church used to be big on social justice. Now, it’s big on anti gay marriage. Both of these emphasis came down through the chain from St. Peter, so the Church says. My guess is that when gay marriage is accepted universally, “God’s will” will turn back to social justice.
God is immutable. Man is anything but immutable.
Jon, the interesting thing is that you haven’t even tasted it for years, how do you know? Listening to the food critics who have agendas of their own doesn’t help. In fact like sushi you may not understand the subtleties the first time you dine.
About that unbroken chain from Peter to the present, google “the Cadaver Pope” for an interesting bit of church history the church won’t even acknowledge.
Here is one link, with references, from teh U of Georgia:
http://www.law.uga.edu/dwilkes_more/his31_cadaver.html
I would say God had little influence with who became Pope during that time period. The amazing thing is that with all that crap the Church survived at all. But survive it did, reforms were made and it is still here.
jesus said “the gates of hell will not prevail against it” god never interferes with a persons free will. if the choose to leave then a few of great faith will have to do. god does not need the majority vote in order to win.
god never interferes with a persons free will That is why atrocities and such are permitted, freewill. I know if I were to be shown a miracle I would have to believe, but that will never happen because it would take away my freewill.
If you can introduce things that explain everything, everything becomes so nebulous that you explain nothing.
Don’t get me started on Pharaoh being made stubborn so that God could demonstrate his power.
you are correct that atrocities and such are permitted because people have the free will to choose to do evil. it gets a little deeper than that but thats the basic idea.
being shown a miricle however does not interfere with your free will. you still have the choice to “harden your heart” and not believe. receiving such a miricle would be an incredible grace from god to open your eyes to a world you were previously blind to. the thing is miricles are happening all around us all the time, we just dont pay enough attention to realize it.
God Bless
My intended meaning was in the part about the effort to explain everything ends up explaining nothing. Freewill is a concept invented to explain away the existence of evil, to take it away from the creator of all things – except evil???
Miracles – the only thing miraculous is that people still take it seriously: David Hume.
but see free will is not at all intended to explain away evil, rather it reaffirms the presence of evil. evil is always around us, constantly attacking and tempting us, it is up to our free will whether to give in to temptation or not.
the book on padre pio that i posted a while back(pray hope and dont worry true stories of padre pio by dianne allen) is 400 pages full of miricles, and that wasnt all…she wrote a second book slightly longer than the first…and that is only one saint. your first though i would guess is -yeah right a bunch of made up fairytales- but padre pio died in 1968 so these events were pretty well documented and confirmed by medical professionals.
I have heard from Christ, literally. Not long conversations but enough to kick me in the butt.
stanta: i have as well, i have had some experiences that would make a believer out of every person on this site.(i would prefer not to expand as they are fairly personal) this kind of miricle is what it took to throw me from the position of luke warm catholic mass on sunday and not much more into a whirlwind of learning and growing in my faith. i cant even put into words the peace and pure joy i have found since my journey away from “luke warm” began. i only hope i am able to help in bringing that peace and joy to others in some way.
If you would like to try a none jail weekend Matt, I think we can work out a way to make contact. We are on fire for evangelization. Looks like I will be on the governing board soon also. Would love to avoid that but it’s not my will anymore.
Stanley: “like to try a none jail weekend”
No atheist potluck for you this weekend with other “warm company”? The jail thing sounds like it may be better company.
that would be great stanta, however, i live in jamestown so that would make it a little tough. its unfortunate to because i think what you do at the prison is really great and i would have liked to learn more about that and possibly get involved. i do love bringing the peace and joy of Christ to others through evangelization but my real passion has turned a little more towards spiritual healing. it is amazing to see what is affecting us from “behind the scenes”. The Healing of Families by Fr. Yozefu B. Ssemakula is and excelent and informative read if you are interested. it is usualy displayed on the main page of spitidaily.com
God Bless
My other retreat is for more of those barely Christians outside of prisons, many need that spiritual healing also. The number who have had or been a party to an abortion is tragic. No one should spend 20-30 years in grief, but the message of Grace is either never heard or like me understood. If you are Catholic try the Cursillo retreats, I think Fargo and Bismarck have them.
the culture of death we live in is extremely tragic! gods grace and forgiveness is the only way to rid ourselves of those tormenting demons. i am indeed very catholic and will have to look into one of the retreat weekends.
God Bless
“It’s marketing to gain souls in Heaven and strength in Christ, not marketing for earthly possessions or money.”
Not always. There are some who do all of this to make money, and they make boatloads. And these mega-churches put the lie to it also. They make tons of money and spend it building mega-churches.
Brad, the question involved the Catholic Church. Hard to become a rich priest. The bigger the congregation the heavier the work load unless they can find someone in the church to become a deacon or a new seminarian to help.
Ok, that’s fair enough, however the Catholic regime raises tons of money. Just look at the extravagance of many of the churches and cathedrals.
What it boils down to is this: you give me just about any major religion, and I will show you someone who is making out like a bandit. Maybe just the people at the very top, but religion is always a money making bonanza for someone.
Most of what you call wealth is property and churches which have been built by the people over centuries. Property always appreciates over time, a simple economic fact. The longer you hold it the greater it appreciates.
Even if it decided to sell the beautiful structures and art work it has created or had created for it who could afford to buy it? This is pretty much a case of something actually priceless.
With in the Catholic Church, is there anyone you can say has a personal fortune? Their homes are the property of the Church and are only on loan for as long as they are capable of working. There is no inheritance rights. One of the reasons to keep priests, bishops and cardinals unmarried. When they were allowed to marry the parishes and cathedrals became feudal fifdoms.
Stan 11:38 “Within the Catholic Church, is there anyone you can say has a personal fortune?”
It doesn’t seem like anyone steals much Catholic money around here. Over in the Vatican, there was a money scandal involving who receives contracts. A whistle blowing Bishop was punished by being tranferred out. According to the article liked, the missing money is $2.5 million.
There was also a wheeler dealer inside the Vatican this past year who had amassed a lot of shady money–I think it was a different scandal.
Both illegal activities and NOT from legitimate means. Just my point. There also 40 White House aides who owe the IRS in the range of $330,000. They are known and still work in the White House. In fact government workers have back taxes over $3.5 Billion.
The property the Catholic regime has might be appreciating and is obviously worth a whole lot of money, but what good is it to anyone? Wouldn’t that money be better spent helping those in need?
The way I see it, the Catholic church is just as guilty as any other church of misusing the money they take in, whether it is to tie up mountains of money in extravagant buildings and property, or to provide an overly lavish lifestyle for their leaders, or both.
Or even more unsettling, how many politicians in Washington are now millionaires who weren’t when they took office. Insider trading isn’t illegal for them.
Brad, the big question still is WHO could buy it? Without a market it is worthless. If it floods what market there is it is again worthless.
a catholic church is the temple of the lord. he himself is physicaly there in the eucharist. i would say there is no place to splendid for him to reside.
That’s what I’m talking about! Matthew 26:6-13 references spending money or using extravegant/precious things to honor God.
If someone can show me how an extravagant building helps God or mankind, I’d like to see it. Honoring God is helping those less fortunate, not extravagant buildings, and if the Bible says otherwise, then once again, the Bible is dead wrong.
You always have the poor with you. Give your firstfruits to the Lord. Stayeth out of that pole shed.
Problem there, Henry, is that that sentiment was written by the priests and prophets, the Lords self appointed agents on earth. The agents who accept the firstfruits (and the lastfruits and anything else that is going) and say pity the poor poor but give everything to the greater glory of the Lord(s agents on earth).
The “agents” give plenty to the poor. My read on that is not to overlook other expenditures and efforts that give glory to the Lord. Your approach is not balanced and carries with it your usual exageration.
i know it is a hard concept to understand, it took me some time to realy wrap my head around it to. to put it in the words of the good and holy archbishop fulton j. sheen- certain things should be wasted in the eyes of the world to give glory to the lord. sorry i didnt take the time to page through his book to find the exact quote word for word but thats the basic idea.
If more agents were Franciscans you may have a case. The world and the orders could use a few more Roger Bacons and William of Ockhams.
Thinking about it there is nothing “NEW” about either of these things, atheists existed in ancient Greek philosophy. The original Pauline Evangelists, must have been new, at least with their version of the developing religion.
If you look at it in the early days the “new evangelists” and the “new atheists” were one and the same, because they refused to acknowledge the gods of the Roman Empire the Romans persecuted the Christians and called them atheists.
The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Ecclesiastes 1:9