The Bible is a Clever Book.

When someone with an academic bent studies human behavior, he/she looks at context.  People who quote the Bible also say they look at context.  The two groups, however, are talking about different concepts of context.

When historian/behavioral scientists look at context, we’re looking at the social and economic circumstances surrounding the behavior.  The Bible believer, however, means by context other Bible verses that might help explain the issue at hand.  It is my understanding Bible believers would consider it an affront to say economic and social forces influenced what was written since it was guided by a sovereign God.

Secular context would be to review what was going on in the world of “gods” in the few centuries leading up to the Jesus story.  The Jews had one god.  But, what the god was varied.  Sometimes it had human characteristics, sometimes exclusively divine.  So, we could expect if a new god came on the scene, it would also have both.  Influencing their views would have been the Roman occupation.

Then, there were the gentiles.  Their god world had several gods.  It included various gods for various purposes.  Gods were born and then died. We would expect any new concept of a god to fit into the model they were familiar with. I want to talk more this in another blog.

What’s clever about the Bible was its way of making up a new god, Jesus, who had stories to fit the very different contexts of Jews and gentiles.

http://ehrmanblog.org/

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About Jon Lindgren

I am a former President of the Red River Freethinkers in Fargo, ND, a retired NDSU economics professor and was Mayor of Fargo for 16 years. There is more about me at Wikipedia.com.
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58 Responses to The Bible is a Clever Book.

  1. Henry says:

    Jon: “its way of making up a new god, Jesus,”

    A lot of “knowing” for Jon the supposed skeptic. Jon “knows” that the Bible supposedly made up Jesus. Jon also “knows” that Jesus is supposedly a new god.

    • entech says:

      Actually, I can tell, you know all these things as well, just very slow admitting it. I suppose what you have been taught and believed for a long time takes a lot of overcoming.
      Especially when it would mean giving up the illusion that you are somehow a special product of a special creation.

      • Henry says:

        entech: “Especially when it would mean giving up the illusion that you are somehow a special product of a special creation.”

        Every snowflake is unique. You are your own special flake.

    • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

      Henry 2:06 There were new gods popping up all the time. The question is, why is this Jesus god catch on?

      • Dustin Metzger says:

        Maybe he “caught on” because He is God? If He was, wouldn’t that be the case?

        You would claim it caught on beacuse the way the faith the artfully crafted to fit the political, economical, and spirtiual climate of the time. If God is who Christians claim He is, God could have simply crafted these dynamics, purposely creating a reason for doubt, and forcing believers to take a leap of faith. That way he gives us a choice to love Him out of Faith, verus love Him simply because he is God.

      • entech says:

        More to the point Jon, if this is as obviously true and evidence based from wheels and words, to the fact that the main character truly loves us and wants to save us from the unfortunate future he is obliged to impose on us, if this true you could expect a little more effort to have more than about 1/3 of the worlds population in the Jesus club.

  2. Candyman says:

    Is that the only positive thing you can say about a book that has been on the nation’s best sellers list for decades, Jon? For an highly educated man, you don’t have any other words to use describing this book than that. Oh, not to mention, the precepts and doctrines outlined in it’s contents framed countless civil and criminal justice codes, constitutions for nations, liberated people groups, more men, women and children are killed for processing it and sharing it’s content that any other historical document in the history of mankind…and that’s the only academic you can say about this book?… it’s cleverly put together? It was written over a span of 1500 hundred composed by slaves to kings, and the dead sea scrolls had congruency with a NASB translation and that is all you can say about the bible…man Jon…you’re sure uneducated on this topic given your level of education. The preaching of the cross to them that perish is foolishness, but to those that believe it is the power of God unto salvation.

    • entech says:

      Precepts and doctrines?
      The fans of the book are quite blinkered when it comes to stoning and other such cruel and unusual punishments, the jealous rages and insane vanity.
      It gets of to a good start in the first few chapters – let my people out of Egypt, but, just in case you are a good pharaoh and incline to do the right thing I will harden you heart against the idea, then I will have the excuse to show of my power that you will all glory in my magnificence (I did say the vanity was insane) and my ability to slaughter people and their cattle and destroy the land with plagues and locust and storms of blood. I know some people will say I am awful for saying such things, but I didn’t write them, I am kinder to your God than you are, I don’t believe any of it.

      • Stanta says:

        Cruel and unusual compared to what? We aren’t talking 21st century Australia.

        • entech says:

          Simply supposed to be talking what you claim to be historical truth. History will always reflect the mores of the time and will always be viewed from the perspective of the period doing the analysis.
          As I said to Candyman, By not believing all the atrocities attributed to the God of Abraham in that book I am allowing that the God that may possibly be discovered by science is a much better than the one you take from that book.

      • Avatar of Demosthenes Demosthenes says:

        “let my people out of Egypt”

        Let’s also hit on the fact that this “Story” is only mentioned in the bible. There are serious issues with the mass exodus story and all these “slaves” leaving. Like the bible goes though, it’s gotta be true, its in the bible.

        • Candyman says:

          look at the evidence of the exodus before you open your mouth without wisdom. Evidence of the crossing Pillers were found, Chariot wheels found, water the pour out between the two stone pillers, found! watch, educate yourself, reconsider….youtude.com ron wyatt or don’t. I would humbly ask you to shut your mouth before you bad God and His handy work He left for you exam.

          • entech says:

            If you want to go around offering literary and television proof for Genesis, I’ll see your Ron Wyatt and raise you Israel Finkelstein; Professor of the Archaeology of Israel in the Bronze Age and Iron Ages at Tel Aviv University. From the early days of modern Israel, the university has been commissioned to find proof of the Exodus, with no success. I admit they do not have the same need to prove it as you, they only have the validity of the claim to a whole country, you have an ego to prop up as a special part of a special creation.

          • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

            Candyman 3:01 Because of your tenacity, I watched several minutes of that video. I regret to say it is a sham.

            I hope you can recognize the propaganda techique used. There is the constant back and forth between statements like, “This piece of stone could have been the one used by —-.” then a quote from the Bible, “— used a piece of stone.” It is so commonly used, another video someone else sent me used the same technique to explain the exodus, but came to a completely different conclusion about where “the Israelites crossed the Red Sea.” It, too, used comments like, “The word — means in English —-.” to describe locations and ancient characters.

            Much was made of the “pole that once had writing…” located where the Isaelites supposedly crossed. There, a common technique was used in the video, “The writing that was there used the words—-,—-,—-, but that was covered up by the Egyptions.” How do we know there was writing there? They didn’t show a picture, at least in the part I saw. How do we know what the writing meant if it was there? Maybe it was referring to something altogether different than crossing the Red Sea.

            As entech pointed out, scholars who want to prove the exodus happened have been looking for decades for evidence. There is no written evidence. There is no archeological evidence. But, the success of this video points out PT Barnum’s alledged comment, “A sucker is born every minute.” One more thing, when I hear music opening up a video, I expect propaganda coming. I was right this time.

      • Candyman says:

        when most ppl say that, Entech, it’s because they haven’t read any of it or even a simple chapter much less a whole book. Let me ask you, how many books of the Bible have you read? and when was the last time you read it? You certainly don’t have to believe any of it, but the freedom and lifestyle you enjoy in the US was framed by it’s precepts. Also, did you know they found Noah’s Arc? also the ancient city of Sodom and Gomorrah? they found the ash remains- youtube.com search terms ron wyatt Sodom and Gomorrah. Did you know they found ancient Egyptian Chariot wheels at the bottom of the Red Sea where the Cbilderen of Isreal crossed on dry ground? Did you know they found the “Ark of the Covenant” ? watch the vidoes or don’t watch them, at least you’ve had been given the chance that many ppl never receive.

        • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

          Candyman 9:07

          First, please do not use abreviations here like “ppl” (Pennsylvian Power and Light??). We want our site to be easy for visitors to read.

          Second, all of the archeology material you mentioned remain unconfirmed as to origin. Several “Noah’s Arks” have been “found”. This last one is some logs that are the same length as what was thought to be meant by the Bible. The “Egyptian Chariot wheels” are just wheels. The might be from a farmer’s cart. There is not confirmation the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah have been found, or, that any such cities actually ever existed except in mythology.

          • Candyman says:

            you obviously hadn’t taken the time to watch the video’s on youtube.com that I shared with you. Honestly, I never thought you would. As The Holy Bible says, “a fool says in his heart, there is no God”. Now, when you become “educated” you pass from a fool to a reprobate. As we read in Romans chpt 1, opps!, chapter one ( I don’t want anyone to miss this, this is too good) “God gave them over to their reprobate mind” meaning, absolutely beyond hope of salvation.

        • entech says:

          Candyman, confession first – haven’t read and studied book by book for at least 55 years, not since leaving school in England where it was part of the daily curriculum, at my school we had a morning assembly every weekday and a trip to the local church every Sunday morning.
          Actually it is the lifestyle you enjoy in the Us, I have only been as a visitor, but I am proud to say that my fellow English man fighting for their rights as Englishmen against the tyranny of King George contributed so much to those rights, and that many of the early settlers were there to escape religious oppression, bit of irony involved when King George had to stop the Puritans from hanging Quakers. But I guess if the book is full of contradiction the organisations based on it can hardly be different.
          Which finding of Noahs arc do you accept, there have been several – we can discount those that turned out to be a deliberate hoax. One of the S&G findings was under some inland sea or other can’t remember which, as it was found by submarine I don’t think there were any ashes. We can go on and on, the question should be how many are accepted by religious authorities, does the Vatican have photographs from these expeditions, we have have photographs of Father LeMaitre with Einstein when he caused Einstein to change his mind about the universe and accept the bigbang idea, the same LeMaitre who begged the Pope not to equate it with Genesis (turns out the Pope had a sense of humour and was only teasing when he offered to make it dogma), why would the Catholic Church put so much time, effort and finance into modern science, you would expect at least a couple of pictures of these amazing discoveries you speak of. Did you know that if you do a tour of Scotland you can visit several genuine and original caves where Robert the Bruce did his spider observations. I do believe that in the middle ages there were more genuine nails from the cross than would fit in ten hands. When we have these things in the Vatican or the Smithsonian perhaps we could start to take them seriously.

          PS. You forgot that Eden was drowned in the flood and remains at the bottom of the Middle East Gulf, submarines have been to that Garden in Eden.

          • Candyman says:

            55 yrs Entech? give me a break. You speak of things you know not. “I am wiser with more understanding than all my teachers for your testimonies are my meditation”… Psalms 119:99 from “The Holy Bible”

          • entech says:

            Candyman: psalms ? you use old folk songs as proof of truth ?
            You simply can’t seriously use a source to prove the source. Equivalent to saying
            :- the Bible is true because it says in the Bible that the Bible is the word of God and as the word of God it must be true, we know this is true because it says so in the Bible and we know — back to beginning

      • James says:

        You may not believe in god but he believes in you and so does satan.

    • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

      Candyman 4:07 “…not to mention the precepts and doctrines outling in its contents framed…”

      The talking snake made me suspious it might not be accurate history.

      • entech says:

        The serpent is more believable than some, especially if you get the sequencing correct. They sampled the forbidden fruit first and then they found a serpent they could talk to. The story got a bit mixed because I think it was either mushrooms or cactus.

    • Dustin Metzger says:

      Amen!

  3. Jeffrey Eide says:

    As far as a book goes, I would not give it rave reviews. From cover to cover is a poorly written conglomeration of plagiarized folklore designed to encourage people to worship vicarious redemption and scapegoating. And that’s if you don’t open the old testament.

    Nice paragraph, but I assure you if more people actually read this ‘beast of mythology’, it would have lost it’s place as a best seller long ago. The plot doesn’t hold my interest, the characters are incongruously put together by multiple authors who never intended cohesion of story. Not to mention each episode changed in tone as time went on. I might also say the liberal use of historical figures as actors in this drama was overplayed.

    I give it 1.5/5 stars. Next time lets spend a couple of millennia telling people Harry Potter is the son of god, and I bet it would be on the best sellers list too.

    • Jeffrey Eide says:

      That was for Mr. Candyman

      • Candyman says:

        why do you call my Mr? assuming I’m good and respectable. There is no one good, no not one. I’m a sinner and a hypocrite and I will be until the day I die. I’m not perfect, just perfectly forgiven. You’ll all missing the point here. The Bible is a all about history, times, dates and places, like it or not. It is what it is. The highest educated men came to Jesus, BY NIGHT, so no one could see them. Christ answered them “you educators of the Children of Israel, know you not that you must be born again or you will never see The Kingdom of God?” Being “born again” has no litmus test except for a change life. 11 cowardly fishermen who fled and denied Christ hours before he was killed. Then less than four or five days later the “cowardly men” are speaking boldly in public to the same men that killed Christ, which 10 to these men were martyred…what happened? what gives here? where is the truth here? what happened to these men to give them an absolutely 360 turn about in the opposite direction AFTER the death of their hero? You will not be able to answer any of your subjective suppositions until you have figured this out individually. Moreover, you know people in which this has happened to, there before Christ and after Christ experience.

    • Jinx says:

      Lol Jeffrey! Excellent book review!

      I imagine that the presence of a bible in your home or office creates a certain impression the displayer desires, reading it is an entirely different matter!

    • James says:

      Have you ever read it?

  4. Brad says:

    I tend to believe that a book that promotes slavery and commands children be put to death for disobeying parents is far from “divinely inspired”. The Bible is a book written by imperfect human beings with political agendas and motives. It’s all about power and control. Always has been, always will be.

    • Dustin Metzger says:

      Actually, the Bible is the complete opposite of controlling; it’s actually freeing. The world will always have power and control over you, unless you are a believer. Faith in Christ provides a freedom that can’t be matched on earth. It’s hard to describe, but its very real. This fact is one of the reasons the Bible is so popular.

  5. Henry says:

    Jon: “It is my understanding Bible believers would consider it an affront to say economic and social forces influenced what was written since it was guided by a sovereign God.”

    Economic and social forces? By what measure? Are we going to use a very small amount of somewhat ancient secular documents that may or may not be true to judge the vast amount of more ancient biblical documents? At this point in time 2000 years later with older biblical manuscripts than many or most secular manuscripts, it seems a textual criticism would be more appropriate.

    • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

      Henry 1:16 “By what measure?”

      That’s a good question. What measure do we have for the talking snake you get so annoyed by when I bring it up? And, what measure do we have for the NT passage about corpses walking out of their graves en mass and being “seen by many”?

      I’m talking of economic, as in how people made their livings, and social, as in what we know of how societies organized themselves and what the prevailing religion was. I agree we cannont measure in a quantitative way the impact. We can review what we know of circumstances and then review the circumstances that followed. We can look for similar patterns in the new society that were seen in the old.

      People are free to make up their own versions of how and why things happen. If you prefer to believe a “holy spirit” made a woman pregnant, the baby walked on water, swung his arms and healed masses like Benny Hinn, feel free.

      • Henry says:

        Jon: “What measure do we have for the talking snake you get so annoyed by when I bring it up? And, what measure do we have for the NT passage about corpses walking out of their graves en mass and being “seen by many”?”

        Unfortunately for your cause, the measure of the secular texts are quite inferior to the biblical texts in trying to prove anything other than a “confirmational bias”.

        The many churches/monestaries carefully preserved their texts at peril to their own life. I read an interesting article about the masonry towers in Ireland built to this effect. Meanwhile, while the secular/atheist/agnostic people were at the friendly local pub having a delicious beer, their fire in their home fireplace would escape its confines and burn up all the secular documents and works they treasured in their home. This trend repeated itself for 2000 years.

        • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

          Henry 2:36 “Meanwhile, the secular..people were at the local pub..their fire in their fireplace would escape..and burn up their secular documents..”

          Makes sense. Would not you agree, also, that who ever was in power probably burned the documents of those they defeated? Hence, the old adage, “History is written by the winners.”

          • Henry says:

            I could speculate that could have been possible as well, in both directions, Nero or Constantine. In fact, it is amazing the early Christian documents weren’t snuffed out. But The Way was significantly widespread and well communicated. People revolved their lives around Christ.

          • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

            Henry 3:24 “in both directions.”

            I agree, that must have happened as well, there were enemies of Christianity over these two thousand years. Today we are left with only some information about antiquity. I happen to think there is great value in critical thinking applied to all the information we have.

          • Henry says:

            Jon: “critical thinking applied to all the information we have.”

            Yes. A great case for textual criticism.

        • entech says:

          Henry 1:16 pm Measure here, metric in an earlier post – learning new ideas Henry? or just new ways to recycle old arguments (arguments in the logic sense of course).
          Secular – love to know what you have in mind when you use that word especially combined with ancient. Ancient history covers the period from the beginning of recorded history to the early middle ages a period of about 5,000 years – early middle ages about 5th to 10th centuries, the first few hundred years of Christianity. Secular from the Latin for worldly or temporal or perhaps separate from religion in a neutral sense, as God is said to be outside of time or non temporal. Nice to know what you actually mean, you being so sophisticated.
          My reading is that you say a few hundred years of Biblical writing outweighs, outreaches and is bigger in volume (depending on which of these you would use as a measurement) than 5000 years worth of writing from the rest of the world, I would wager China alone with their strong bureaucratic sense and meticulous detail would be well in front, if we were measuring it as a race. You also comment that this worldly documentation may or may not be true, there is nothing to show that this “vast amount” of Biblical literature is true or false either.

          2:30 pm Unfortunately for your cause, the measure of the secular texts are quite inferior to the biblical texts in trying to prove anything other than a “confirmational bias”. What an extremely stupid and self refuting statement that is, really trying to hard and going so far astray is very rare for you. This is simply a bald assertion with no measurable basis, to invert the whole thing and use it to make my case would prove equally futile and pointless, consider:
          Unfortunately for your cause, the measure of the secular Biblical texts are quite inferior to the biblical secular texts in trying to prove anything other than a “confirmational bias”.

          3:24 pm True anyone could and probably did take advantage of any period of influence that they had to attempt to destroy and/or denigrate the opposition. So much of the early non Trinitarian forms of the early Jesus movement was destroyed and the only things we know about them are the critical writings written after the originals were destroyed when the Christian religion became formalised and more so when it became the official religion.
          Actually the Roman Empire was well known for the terrible denigration of those it defeated – Carthage got a very bad press – we know that the magisterium changed from ‘secular’ to churchly the habit never changed.

      • Wolfy32 says:

        Heh.. I got several responses… Zombie Apocalypse (hey People are taking it more and more seriously everyday!!! — Why is Walking Dead such a hit show on AMC?)

        The virgin pregnant woman could have been abducted and impregnated, and put back on this earth and Tadaaaaa!!! Pregnant woman with a part alien child with special powers and knowledge of “a new earth…” Gotta Read the bible from a Sci Fi point of View folks! If you approach it from a superior civilization trying to help humanity grow… It starts to have some cohesion!! Come on.. Mana (Food) raining down on the Israelites fleeing to Egypt in a desert? And the food followed whereever they went? 2 cities being vaporized… And the two witnesses being told to look away by the “Lords” that were treated as people but were implied to be way more than “People” in the story. They had knowledge and understanding beyond the people of the time.

        Healing? What if our doctors went back to their time? Would not our ability to treat Malaria, and other ailments, not be miraculous to them? Maybe even some blindness?

        So, if someone was way more advanced than even us of our time. Say 1000 years more advanced than us now…

        The star that led the wisemen? An orbiting satellite, probe, beacon???

        Genesis says that the Saraphem (angels) took humans as mates. There’s sooo much context of sci-fi in the bible that to me it honestly terrifies me at times. Makes me wonder if it truely isn’t an interstellar war between two or more factions in the universe seeking human voluntary servitude. What could we possibly do for an interstellar race? I have no clue.. Why would they need us… Yet, the bible is very deceptively science fictiony.

        • Jinx says:

          Jeffery, have you considered the bible as Sci Fi fiction? Would that improve your ranking the bible higher than 1.5 out of 5? Then again, maybe not……. I do like the idea of Adam & Eve consuming mushrooms or cacti prior to talking with a snake……. Gives a whole different perspective.

          Oh well, back to packing…..

        • T says:

          I think it would be more along the lines of fantasy as opposed to science fiction. Those are two very different literary genres. Fantasy is one in which anything can happen (talking snakes, a man surviving in the belly of a whale, oratorical inflamed shrubbery, etc.). Science fiction is literature that is based on actual science. I did, however, enjoy your post Wolfy32. :)

          • Wolfy32 says:

            I concede you’re partially correct. I had this debate of whether fantasy can be considered sci fi with some friends a while back. We Wicki’d it and it turns out that they are two separate genres as you stated, however, Fantasy is a sub-type to Sci-Fi. (fantasy in terms of Dungeons and Dragons Fantasy. Not children’s stories… )

            However, in all seriousness, there is an alternate way of viewing the bible. Let’s make the hypothesis that maybe not everything in the bible actually happened, and it was more metaphorical? Were there only two people that the human race spawned from? Most likely not… Metaphoricaly speaking maybe human society did something that our creator didn’t like and kicked us out… If we merge this with Sci Fi… Maybe a higher race was trying to create new life to populate this planet, and they had created a biodome or simulation of some type. (Some advanced Genetics research merged with cloning of some type). They relocated those test subjects to Earth. Said, good luck and left to monitor from above…

            To ancient humans, maybe they felt like they had done something wrong and had to take the blame for be kicked out of their home… And we now have the beginnings for Genesis.

            People were created, they were relocated, and as most humans do, they blamed themselves for being abandoned on Earth…

            Maybe the story of surviving in the whale was just a way of saying “no matter what he did to avoid doing what he was supposed to, he ended up having to do it anyways..”

            How many times have we felt “swallowed by a whale” in life and had no choice but to do what we’ve sworn we’d never do? I swore I’d never do public speaking… I now teach in a bachelors program part time and in person… LOL.

            So many people take the bible literal. Yes, many of you are right, it is written by humans by human influence. Divinely inspired or not, it contains anectdotal and metaphorical ways of life. I asked a Catholic sister once… Do you think Job ever existed? Her response was: “I don’t know. Does it matter?”

            In all reality does it matter that the stories happened exactly, word for word as stated? Some things maybe it does, the story of Christ matters significantly. However, even there I had a baptist minister tell me, hey, each of the gospels was written from a different point of view.

            Each person notices different things that the other doesn’t notice or pick up on at all. Yes, it could be contradiction, at the same time, it could be simply how they perceived things based on their point of view.

            Maybe Noah’s ark was a small merchant boat, that survived a large overland flood in a small remote area of Turkey. Remembering these people don’t know how big the whole world is… Mayb they meant, their “bubble” of the world was flooded… My bubble of Fargo is pretty small. I can’t possibly perceive things across the globe… Maybe Noah’s statement of “the whole world” was more of “the few hundred miles I travel annually to sell my goods flooded.”

            We want concrete facts. And I hate to say this, but, there’s a saying… The victorious are the writers and creators of history. How many documents from fallen civilizations do we have? We can’t even determine what happened to civilizations that just seemingly vanished… Atlantians (if they existed), Aztecs, Incas, etc.

            History is cruel, and forgetful of those absorbed by other societies and cultures. We have little facts about much of our world… Science can prove very little about much of our existence. Heck we don’t even know what half our brains are used for or do… We’re still uncovering our own genetics… Why do we demand such scientific fact from a 2000 year old document, when, we can’t even cure the common cold?

            If we applied our standards for the bible to live up to, to our scientists, our research endeavors, and our societies, we’d have a much better world! For now we have to accept that much of life, our world, and the bible is uncertain, unprovable, and maybe even, unknowable…

            If someone can scientifically prove to me exactly what is at the edge of the universe, or how do we know where the universe ends? Or is there an end to the universe?

            And that there is nothing out there in the entire universe showing affection to Humanity. Maybe we’re just God’s pets, but, I’d rather be his pet than an animal that he shoos away because we keep biting him.

  6. entech says:

    I find it amusing that in this topic so many supporters of the Bible keep asking critics if they have read it.
    This topic and the previous one are based on or refer to the work of Bart Ehrman, it was reading and serious study of the Bible that caused him to change from evangelical to skeptic to agnostic.
    One wonders if his work and person would be so derided if the change had not occurred?

    • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

      entech 12:27 “…topic so many supporters of the Bible keep asking critics if they have read it.”

      I believe it was the Pew foundation several months ago found atheists answered a series of easy Bible questions more accuratly than avaid church goers. At Freethinker meetings I’ve heard several people say they have read the entire Bible more than once. I just read the Gospels myself. Made me more skeptical than ever.

      • Candyman says:

        Let me ask you? When was the time you spent reading The Holy Bible (more) than the time you spent knocking it down? …nuff said

        • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

          Candyman 4:04 “Let me ask you? When was the time you spent reading the Holy Bible (more) than the time you spent knocking it down? nuff said.”

          (I think you meant to insert the word “more”.)

          You seem to be one of the believers who reasons in this way: “If a skeptic reads the Bible, he will no longer be a skeptic.” You seem unable to see we are skeptics because of the Bible. We see no evidence there was a Moses exodus, a Noah’s flood, a virgin birth, dead people becoming alive, a life after death, masses of people healed, walking on water, a few fishes feeding a crowd or any other of its magic. Instead of videos and Bible versus, we need independent evidence. That is, we need the same kind of evidence you require when you hear a politician or read an ad for some new medicine, some varification.

          • Candyman says:

            have you considered the evidence from the videos I shared? probably not. Take some ownership here Jon. For most skeptics, this is where they stop. Will this be your lasting legacy when your obit is published by the Forum?…

          • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

            Candyman 10:10 “Have you considered the evidence from the videos I shared? Probably not. Take some ownership her Jon.

            No, I did not open the videos. I seldom look at videos people link. I don’t post any video links, instead write the point I’m trying to make. I will read whatever you write about the video contents.

      • Candyman says:

        I’m not a professional debater there Jonny Boy, I have just a simple bachelors in business, of course all my electives where in New Testament history and apologetics over 20 yrs ago, which I aced. I’ll be your huckleberry, that’s just my game…

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