Compare These Solutions to the Gay Dilemma.

I’ve been watching two ways of dealing with a dilemma.  The dilemma is choosing between ”insiders”, who believe the Bible condemns homosexuality, and the general public, who pay the bills, that is coming to accept it.

One way of dealing with the dilemma is that of evangelist, Joel Osteen.  He is upfront and open with his approach.

He explains it this way (paraphrasing).  “The Bible seems to say homosexuality is a sin.  But, my goal is to reach as many people as possible with my positive message.  If I bring up this issue I lose people for everything else I want them to hear, so I don’t bring it up.” Osteen’s ministry is thriving.

Compare that to Boy Scouts of America.  It knows it will not survive under its present policy of excluding gay boys and leaders.  It is losing numbers and funding sources.  Compared to Joel Osteen, it’s approach is muddled.

Boy Scouts are trying to appease “insiders”, preachers and denominations, by allowing a local option and now delaying even that change.  It should say to Christian critics, “Look, we cannot survive as an institution that discriminates when the public now accepts gays.  If you can guarantee our future with this discrimination, we’ll listen to you.  If you can’t, goodbye.”

Pundits, like the one attached, hammer away at the Boy Scouts for dropping discrimination but don’t offer up another solution to the dilemma.  The Boy Scouts need to adopt the Joel Osteen model.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/boy-scouts-flirt-with-calamity-89754/

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I am a former President of the Red River Freethinkers in Fargo, ND, a retired NDSU economics professor and was Mayor of Fargo for 16 years. There is more about me at Wikipedia.com.
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33 Responses to Compare These Solutions to the Gay Dilemma.

  1. Avatar of Mac Mac says:

    I agree this has little to do with sin, discrimination or ethics. It’s all about survival. My guess is that the parents of the kids who sign up for scouting are in their late 20s and 30s and aren’t interested in letting their children be a part of an organization with written rules of discrimination.

    Are there any articles like the one you shared written by anyone under 40?

    • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

      Mac 1:59 “..aren’t interested in letting their children be a part of an organization with written rules of discrimination.”

      Exactly. Parents, today, teach their kids not to discriminate. The schools today reenforce this message. The current Scout policy falls outside what are acceptable attitudes toward minorities. Business don’t want to be on a list that gives money to such an organization. Parents don’t want there kids to hear it either.

  2. Michael Ross says:

    Osteen won’t stand for Bible truth if it means giving up his glamorous ministry and fleet of Lier jets.

    “The dilemma is choosing between ”insiders”, who believe the Bible condemns homosexuality, and the general public, who pay the bills, that is coming to accept it.”

    Those who believe the Bible are part of the general public and also pay bills.

    “Look, we cannot survive as an institution that discriminates when the public now accepts gays. If you can guarantee our future with this discrimination, we’ll listen to you. If you can’t, goodbye.”

    It looks to me as if the scouts are finished either way. If they do accept openly gay members and leaders, parents will take their boys out. The Mormons, Catholics, and Southern Baptists wont support the BSA under the new policy. Why don’t gays start their own organizations instead of ruining existing ones? Because they are selfish and intolerant.

    • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

      Michael 2:50 “Why don’t gays start their own organizations instead of ruining existing ones?”

      Because Boy Scouts of American belongs to them, their families and friends as well as straights. They work at the companies that give Scouts money, buy from those companies, belong to and give money to those churches.

      There are lots of gay adults who are Eagle Scouts (Ricky).

      We went through “separate but equal” once before.

  3. Avatar of Mac Mac says:

    Michael as much as I admire your politics as it relates to fiscal responsibility and accountability; your social politics are way off.

    The past few months I’ve been on a rant begging for examples of how our military has suffered because they no longer kick out the gay people who were already there for acknowledging they’re gay. (remember, they knew the homos were there; they only kicked them out if they didn’t lie about it)

    I think wiser minds at the Scouts knew they would be non-existent in 20 years if they didn’t flex on this policy of written discrimination.

    IMO they did a risk assessment and knew that many more companies would follow UPS and drop their support; combined with today’s parents who wouldn’t let their kids be a part of such a discrimatory organization.

    The cost of losing anti-gay people was significantly less than the cost of losing everyone else.

    • Michael Ross says:

      “The past few months I’ve been on a rant begging for examples of how our military has suffered because they no longer kick out the gay people who were already there for acknowledging they’re gay.”

      I guess it doesn’t matter if warfare consists of pushing buttons in air conditioned control rooms stateside and vaporizing victims in the middle east and north Africa. These are extra-judicial killings. Worse, A counter-insurgency adviser testified before Congress that only 2% of attacks kill militants, the rest kill civilians and destroy homes and businesses. The “battlefield” is so secretive and far removed that our Nobel Peace Prize winning president could prosecute a half dozen drone wars and still campaign for reelection by claiming to have kept the promise of ending the war in Iraq.

      Why do gays want to be apart of the global occupation force? To prove they can be as murderous as straight guys. During the Vietnam era liberals didn’t want anyone in combat. Now they want everyone: men, women, straight, gays, lesbians, everyone.

      I believe one true hero of the Iraq war is Bradley Manning, who is said to be gay. See, I’m not a complete homophobe.

      • Avatar of Mac Mac says:

        Michael, I do not disagree with your statements.

        As I recall, you predicted the demise of the US Military if homos stopped lying about being homos.

        I await your examples of how the military has suffered.

  4. Avatar of Mac Mac says:

    Oh and Jon, thanks for the shout-out on Ricky’s Eagle Scout status. His character and integrity exemplify not only the best traits of the Scouts, but of all of humanity.

    I am fortunate to have 3 Eagle Scouts in my family. Ricky is the only gay one. All are men who have made a marked difference in the communities in which they live.

    Those characteristics aren’t reserved for straight men.

  5. Matt Slocomb says:

    How do you take into account the expansion of some churches which do not shy away from this message.

    http://www.sermoncentral.com/articleb.asp?article=Top-100-Largest-Churches

    http://www.sermoncentral.com/articleb.asp?article=Top-100-Fastest-Growing-Churches

    I do not know all of these guys, but a number (e.g. MacArthur, Chandler, Laurie, MacDonald, Driscoll, etc…) do not shy away from these issues at all. In fact, they often emphasize these issues.

    If your hypothesis is that talking about these issues will drive people away, why the growth there?

    • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

      Matt S 4:22 “Why the growth there?”

      Good point. I don’t know. I’m only saying the Boy Scouts cannot sustain themselves with a policy of discrimination and a model for getting past it is Osteen.

  6. Avatar of Kevin Kevin says:

    How is the legal determination of who is “gay” and who is not made?

  7. bill says:

    Wrong Jon. The BSA can and will sustain themselves against the gay agenda. Where your discrimination argument falls apart is that people of color have no choice regarding the color of their skin whereas homosexuality is a chosen lifestyle. There is nothing normal or natural in any way, shape, or form when a man inserts his penis into another mans rectum. The BSA is not discriminating. The BSA has set rules of behavior which you must follow or you are not welcome. Period. If you don’t like it. Go somewhere else.

    • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

      bill 6:29 Thanks for the first time comment. Your comments are welcome here.

      I would like to see some evidence being gay is a choice–evidence I know about is exactly the opposite. As to whether the BSA will change, I don’t know why they would have brought this up if they were pleased with where the current policy was taking them.

    • Jinx says:

      The only gay agenda that exists is in the minds of those who wish to deny them of their basic rights.

  8. bill says:

    Jon. If you have a brain there’s a choice. I know of no evidence whatsoever that points to a gay gene. The burden of evidence falls upon those who claim that they were born that way.

    • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

      bill 10:44 “If you have a brain there’s a choice.”

      This have been discussed a gazillion times here and elsewhere. It comes down to this. Anti gay people will say, “There’s a choice. I could be gay if I wanted to.”

      But never, not once, has anyone who claimed they could, here or any other place I’ve heard of, have ever done it.

      • James says:

        Jon. That’s because we don’t want to and choose not to. Look human beings come up with all kinds of kinky ways to get their jollies. Affording every person special rights based upon whatever sexual fetish they have is preposterous. We all have the same rights guaranteed under the constitution and no, I don’t consider gay marriage a right.

        • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

          James 1:09 “..we don’t want to and choose not to.”

          Until someone does, you statement needs to be modified to, “We don’t want to and can’t.”

          • bill says:

            You’re wrong Jon. The statment James made stands. “We don’t want to and choose not to” is factual. All humans have choices. If not then you are saying that humans are nothing more than mere animals that are driven by instinct and do not have the ability to think and make rational decisions.

          • entech says:

            True Jon, think about it you and I could have a lot more money if we wanted we just choose not to.

            Or perhaps you could have a lot more posters that agree with you entirely, but you choose not to. :lol:

            Actually, thinking further some people could be tolerant, could accept that we are all equal in our humanity. I am the same as you in God’s sight; I too am a piece of clay. Job 33,6. But they choose to think of yourself as superior.

          • bill says:

            Entech. You believe in the fallacy that all people are equal. They are not. Life proves that every day. You could have more money if you chose to work harder, get a second job, advance your education. The choice is completely up to you.

          • Jinx says:

            Sorry Bill and James, all people are born equal with certain basic rights…… food, clothing, shelter, free from abuse, free to love and be loved, to marry, etc.

            Who gave you the right to interfere in the rights and life of others……….and don’t spout that religious BS at me to justify yourselves!

          • bill says:

            Jinx. Let me drop you off in the middle of a deserted island with nothing but a knife and a book of matches. Then tell me what basic rights you have. Will a shelter magically appear because you think you have a right to it? Will food fall from the sky because you have a right to it? The idea of rights is a man made concept. In reality you have a right to what only you can secure through your ability.

          • Jinx says:

            Bill, your a Jackass.

    • Grandma says:

      Check the hypothalamus studies, and the familial ones which show that if there is one gay person in a family there probably are more through the generations.

      Besides, what child (and almost all gay people know when they are young that they are “different,”) would wish for a life of getting beaten up and tormented all the way through school.

      • James says:

        Grandma. You show me the research and the researchers. I guarantee there’s a bias involved. I don’t know where you went to school but we left the sissys alone.

        • Jinx says:

          I am also familiar with the research Grandma is talking about and it is advancing and adding to the immense knowledge base that shows a gay person is born that way. Bias is controlled for in these studies exactly as it should be. If your really interested Jimmy look it up yourself.

          My son knew he was different when he was 8 years old but couldn’t put it into words. ………he is not the only gay person in my large extended family.

          BTW, you don’t talk to Grandma like that, didn’t your mother teach you anything!

          • bill says:

            It’s b.s. and you know it. No one is saying you can’t be gay. You can be gay as gay can be but you are not entitled to special rights. Soon we’ll be saying it’s ok for you to marry your pet hamster.

  9. buzz marick says:

    Why is it in homo relationships that one half of the partnership is dominent and the other half is subservient?

    • Jinx says:

      Why is it in hetero relationships are women and children beaten, molested, raped and murdered?

      Religion has certainly worked hard to keep women subservient.

      BTW, some homosexual relationships also have beatings, rapes and murder as well.

  10. James says:

    Jinx. I can see Bill won that argument as your only response is to insult. Good argument Bill. You’re 100% spot on.

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