“Queer At Patrick Henry College.”

A story out of Patrick Henry College repeats a pattern of behavior from the religious right I’ve seen so many times, deny the existence of something so you can pretend it doesn’t exist.

Some former students at the small college near Washington, DC, started a blog for gay students there, “Gay At Patrick Henry College”.  The Chancellor said it is impossible there are gay students because students are required to sign an oath not to practice homosexuality.

I recall a friend of mine who is a Priest saying, early on in the Catholic scandal over abuse of children by clergy, such abuse was impossible because the Priests would have told their superiors about this in confession.  That would be humorous were the consequences not so tragic.

Then, I had a funny experiece at our local Lutheran Concordia College.  Years ago I met with some gay students in an off campus home.  I was asked to approach a high level Concordia official to request gays be allowed to be open.  I was told there were no gay students at Concordia.

I know a couple of young gay men on the East Coast who met at Jerry Falwell’s Liberty University.  Both have professional careers but spend weekends traveling to Bible-based universities meeting secretly with gay students helping them cope with their hostile environment.

We all want to deny the obvious when it does not please us.  Denying there are homosexual people among us is ridiculous.


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40 Responses

  1. Dustin White

    Completely agree. I am very glad thought that Concordia has changed it’s stance and is doing a lot to help support the GLBT community.

    In 50 or so years though, all of these individuals who are intolerant of the GLBT community will eventually offer an apology and see the ignorance in there pass aggressions. The same thing happened in regards to the racist treatment of African Americans. Only if people could have learned from the past hey wouldn’t have to make the same foolish mistakes.

    1. Michael Ross

      “In 50 or so years”

      Do you know what the federal budget deficit was for last month?
      $172,000,000,000 or $5.7 billion/day. The Fed has admitted to purchasing (with funny money) 61 % of the bonds sold by the U.S. treasury in 2011. Doubtless it will be even more in ’12. We have done everything morally and financially that has brought civilizations to an end. Morally with the acceptance of sexual promiscuity, especially homosexuality, and financially with debt and debasement of currency. You must fancy yourself to be a prophet. We could experience total societal collapse at any time, and yet you know what life will be like 50 years from now. Amazing!

  2. Henry

    The example of Patric Henry College indictes dishonesty by the student in not disclosing. The college had written documentation there were no gay students. This is a problem of the student’s for lying, not the college’s. Of course, it is being spun that the college is at fault.

  3. Michael Ross

    “The wicked walk on every side, when the vilest men are exalted. “(Psalm 12:8, King James)

    How does the “Queen James” interperate this verse?

    1. Henry

      That is easy. The original author (David) was blaming it all on the Christians. The interpretations of this passage for millenia are all wrong, and now we are down to a youngin’ (Errman et al) telling us what it means. {/sarcasm}

  4. Ed

    Michael Ross’ comments about essentially the moral decay of our nation are spot on. Everyone knows there are homosexuals in every community, in every school. Unfortunately, they are not accepted by everyone as sinners no different than anyone else. But do I want a homosexual male coaching my sons? Absolutely not. Should homosexual couples be allowed to adopt? It’s tough enough raising children with a nurturing mother and father. Children do best with a mother and father. Single parents are even at a disadvantage ….and I understand there are many success stories. Homosexuals are far less than ideal to adopt and raise children.

    The shooting Friday is more evidence of our moral decay. Television, Hollywood, video games….it’s very evident. Our society wants entertainment to be violent, graphic, and dysfunctional. The influence comes from many avenues. We continue to move towards “love everyone all let their be no rules or moral compass” with society. Whatever goes. Dustin….would Friday’s shooting happened 30 or 40 years ago? How commonplace will it be in the next 20 years? I agree we have made many strides in terms of racism, but 100 years from now people won’t be looking back saying homosexuality was, after all, normal behavior. And Jon, if you want to make a difference towards peace in our nation and world, you should be fighting for monuments of the Ten Commandments to be constructed everywhere possible….not removed.

    1. Dustin White

      Study after study has shown that children raised by same-sex couples are just as well off as those raised by opposite-sex couples. The main factor on a development of a child is whether or not they are brought up in a loving, stable environment. Both the American Psychological Association and the American Medical Association support this statement.

      Homosexuality has been a part of society since the beginning. There has always been GLBT individuals in every community, every church, and every school for thousands of years. Yet, it is only now that the moral decay is beginning to set in? I find such an idea quite ridiculous when one looks at the percentage of individuals who are GLBT. They are a very small minority of the population. Yet somehow they are responsible for this decay? When we look at moral decay, it generally is within the heterosexual community, as the heterosexual community consists of the vast majority of people. To blame it on a minority is nothing more than spewing hatred, and making a group your scapegoat. It is exactly the opposite thing in which Jesus commanded.

      As for 30 years ago, yes, such shootings still occurred. If you look at history, one can find the same sort of actions throughout the entirety of it. However, if you look at the numbers, violence is consistently going down. Violent crimes are vastly down from 20 years ago. If we actually look at statistics, one would see that morally, our country is getting quite better.

      As for violence and entertainment. There really is no actual connection between violence in entertainment, and violent acts. All through history though we have had violent entertainment. Before, we had public executions. That is quite a bit more violent then a few video games.

      And even today, people are looking at homosexuality, and seeing that it is normal. If you look at any medical or psychological center, they state that homosexuality is normal. Even the Catholic Church, in their catechism, states that homosexuality is normal, as in people are born that way, and don’t choose their sexual orientation.

      Finally, if you want the 10 commandments everywhere possible, then we should also erect the religious ideals of others. We should also erect the Pillars of Islam, the Noble Truths, etc. We can’t allow the government to favor one religion over another. That is directly against what the founding fathers wanted. And really, erecting more 10 commandment monuments will do nothing. They only repeat the same basic laws that all societies have. They aren’t magical.

      What truly needs is tolerance. The intolerance that you’re showing will only lead to more hate, and more problems. And Christians especially have no excuse as they are commanded to love their neighbor as themselves. How easily people forget that.

      1. Michael Ross

        “What truly needs is tolerance.” Amen. And we should be tolerant of Adam Lanza and all mass muderers. After all, God made them that way.

      2. Stanta

        While the Catholic church does not condemn the urges, it does condemn the act. Just as it condemns fornication outside of marriage and adultery. Stay out of my church if you chose to tell lies.

      3. Wanna B Sure

        “You have heard that it was said, You shall not commit adultry; but I say to you, that everyone who looks on a woman to lust for her has committed adultery with her already in his heart. Jimmy Carter admitted to that very publically; That is the work of the Law. He is forgiven; That is the function of the Gospel. The law shows us our sin, the Gospel shows us our salvation. (Justification by grace through faith in The Christ’s substitutional atonement.)

    2. Ed 3:46 “would Friday’s shooting happened 30 or 40 years ago?”

      I heard an intetesting discussion of this on NPR this morning. I can’t remember when they began tracking school mass murders, but an expert in this field said the number of events and deaths has been steady over the 20+ years of study. The children killed in schools is a tiny fraction of the children killed in other violent crimes.

      Ed, it you have any information that relates display of the 10 Commandments to school shootings, please share it with us. It sounds rediculous.

  5. Henry

    Jon: “I was asked to approach a high level Concordia official to request gays be allowed to be open.”

    Homosexual students at a Christian college asking an atheist to be their spokesman when in deliberations with the Christian college? The gay/atheist “marriage” is important.

  6. Margaret Walsh

    My wonderful, gifted eldest son is gay and he was created that way. All I ask is equality for him and his devoted partner and for the world to just not hurt this sensitive and caring young man and others like him!

    1. Margaret 11:10 “All I as is equaltiy for him and his devoted partner…

      I hope that for your son as well, and, for all gay people who live out live for all of us to admire but are treated like “sinners.” The Bible does not condemn him but so many people do anyway.

    2. Henry

      Margaret: “All I ask is equality for him”

      He has the same rights as I do, if he chooses to exercise those rights. Some choose to not get married and have a family, and instead, working on a fishing vessel. That doesn’t mean their rights are being abridged. It just means they chose to fish. My best regards to your son.

      1. Dustin White

        How can he get married if most states ban such or don’t recognize it? The laws simply do not give the same rights to the GLBT community as they do to heterosexuals. It isn’t equality.

          1. Henry

            May this joy be a blessing for you in your pursuit of Jesus Christ. You genuinely have the opportunity of a lifetime. Many of us work to support people in your position of theological training. May the Lord Jesus Christ work in you to His Glory.

  7. Ed

    Dustin and John:

    I don’t think God looks any differently at gays being sinful than myself. So quit playing the intolerent card. As an example, it’s easy to respond that Christians are hateful just because they don’t approve of gay marriage.

    My point about the 10 commandments Jon is this….we would all be better off letting the commandments guide our society versus the video games, music that incites violence and promotes gang activity, and the Hollywood reality shows that are full of violence and dysfunction. What influences behavior of our kids today? What if the commandments were displayed in every school and park and playground? As Obama said in his speech tonight, isn’t it time we do something different?

    Dustin – your arguments are so weak they are not worth commenting on. If you think there is a long history of gay couples raising and adopting children as successfully as heterosexual couples, you’re living somewhere outside of the U.S. And no – children do not do as well in single parent homes and yes – children from homes with a mother and father present are better adjusted in life. There is no study to suggest otherewise and if there is – it was probably conducted by a gay couple. It’s like saying there is no data to suggest earning potential of someone who drops out of high school is less than someone with a doctorate. It may sound good to your agenda and high school dropouts – but nobody else will buy it.

    1. Ed 2:28 “we would all be better off letting the commandments guide our society versus video games…”
      Again, if you have information that this is true, it would be helpful.

      I would not say the 10 Commandments are the ultimate in moral values. For example, wives are put in the category with possessions. This is because to the 10 commandment authors thought they were nothing but possessins.

      Then, there is the question about which version of the 10 commandments would be displayed. The one on Fargo’s City Hall mall is called “the Catholic version”.

      There are a lot of children killed every year by violence. The percentage of these deaths that happen in the school killings is actually tiny. Apparently, there are things that can be done about the school killings, identifying young people who are bent on doing this. To better identify them will take lots of professionals funded by school systems. I would agree to have my property taxes go up on something that actually prevented the killings. I wouldn’t not be in favor of doing something meaningless, and even harmful, like displaying the 10 commandments.

    2. Ed 2:28 The studies you mention studied children in single heterosexul homes versus parent heterosexual homes. Children in two parent homosexual homes do better than children in single parent heterosexual homes.

    3. Dustin White

      Ed- I gave you two respectable organizations that support what I said. You can ignore all of that, but that doesn’t make a credible argument.

      And yes, I live in the U.S.

    4. Dustin White

      Ed, I don’t understand why individuals like you can’t actually have a decent conversation. Having been coming to this blog for a short while now, it seems that the Chrisian members here often resort to personal attacks or simply ignoring or distracting from the points being made.

      Wouldn’t it be easier to show why arguments are weak instead of making insulting statements and baseless accusations? Is that the Christian way? Honestly, I just don’t understand it.

    1. Ed 2:55 First, I ask all participants here on the discussion board to write what’s on their mind, and, if important, offer a link. Please do not simply post a link.

      Second, did you even read the link you posted? While the children he found in gay parent homes had more problems than those in two parent heterosexual homes, they also had experienced unstable parenting arrangements, many changes. The author admitted this biased the findings of children from homes with homosexual parents. The author,”…declined to advise whether same sex marriage is a good idea or not.”

      After several years have passed and we have experience where stable marriages of gay couples who raise children and can be compared to children fron straight stable marriages, then we will know something. Until then, I’d encourage you not to draw conclusion like the one you presented earlier.

  8. I’m going to be so bold as to say that children raised in same-gender parent households fare BETTER overall than children in opposite gender or single parent households.

    Tell me how two gay guys who have the resources to do what it takes to bring a child into their home would ever do the horrific things opposite gender couples do to their kids?

    I might even be willing to throw a couple dollars toward a charity if there’s anyone who could give a credible example of abuse or neglect of a child adopted by a same gender male couple.

  9. Ed

    Dustin wrote…….”Study after study has shown that children raised by same-sex couples are just as well off as those raised by opposite-sex couples.” Jon – you and Dustin are certainly not agreeing to the level of studies done.

    Here is the conclusion of the study I posted…I think it supports my conentions and opinions on the subject. The entire article does actually – and it’s a credible study.

    It says “Indeed, the major takeaway from the report is less an indictment that same-sex households are a negative thing and more an affirmation that intact, biological households are a positive thing. Put simply, if you want to give your children the best start in life, you should have children inside of wedlock and stay together for the duration. But then, we already knew that.”

    Mac……any homeless shelter in FM.

    1. Dustin White

      The study you cited was biased and acknowledged such. But yes, children who are raised in stable families do better. The conclusion does not rule out committed, stable, same-sex couples though.

      The key is that the couple is stable. That is what the study found. You completely missed the point as you are only looking to justify your own biases.

    2. Ed 3:53 “Here is the conclusion of the study I posted.”

      Ed, please get serious. I didn’t look up what you quoted, but I’m quite sure it is the conclusion of the person writing about the study, not the person who did the study. The site you referenced is a conservative site and that was a quote from a conservative author. I guess I need to repeat myself: the study did not compare children of stable straight couples with stable gay couples. The author of the study itself did not make a judgement about gay marriage.

      It would be a great service to the readers, here, if you would not distort information in order to score debate points.

    3. Ed 3:53 Any study that involves gay parents starts with a problem: How does one find a random sample of gay parents with the same quality of sampling that can be achieved with straight parents. This problem dates back over 50 years to the time of the Kinsey book on sexual practices. There was some randomness on heterosexual practices, but the only place Kinsey could find self identifies gays was in gay bars. So, the results portrayed gays as VERY permisucous compared to straights. If the samples of straights had been taken in bars where people go to find causual sex, it might have been the same as gays.

      So it is with gay parents. There was criticism of studies showing gay parents had better outcomes with their children because the sample came from parents who bought books and bookstores, etc., perhaps the upper income and educational levels of our society, gay and straight. The children of such people do very well, seemingly better than the cross section of straight adoptive parents.

      I don’t know what the sampling system was in the studies your article referred to. Were they all random?

      And, what about the children themselves. Many gay parents I’ve read about take on children passed up by others, children with problems. I don’t know if this is common enough to influence the results or not, but we should find out before making sweeping claims.

      And, there is the obvious problem with making generalizations about families with husbands and wives present. There are thousands of adoptions to single straight parents. What’s to be done about them if the results there don’t compare as well?

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