Predicting The Unstated Ultimate Ends Of Political Efforts.

During today’s nine hour drive, I entertained myself a while listening to Christian right radio.

Much of the broadcast was spent talking about the “ultimate goal” of Obama and liberals.  Talkers were sure the ultimate goal is complete control of social values, forced abortions and homosexuality.  Their evidence is the effort to require inclusion of birth control medicines in Affordable Health Care.  Predicted also is Obama will bankrupt the government and cause run away inflation.

I wish I could say I don’t do some of the same thing.  When I see the right doing something, I predict an ultimate and unstated goal.  It is always something far in excess of what is currently proposed.  For example, I think if the right were able to outlaw abortion, it would move to outlaw or regulate other things related to sex.

What gives every dire prediction at least a tiny bit of credibility is religious and political groups are made up of a variety of other groups.  Some of these other groups, or, individuals within those groups, may have aims far beyond the main group and make known their intentions to achieve these goals.

For example, there may be subsets of the “Religious Liberty” movement who want to practice discrimination in housing against gays and unmarried couples.  Yet, most of the main group may be opposed to using “Religious Liberty” in this way.

The truth is, we really don’t know the future.  But, in politics it is open season to make predictions all day, every day.

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29 Responses

  1. .e

    I think it is interesting to figure out what motivates folks and then maybe you could predict their goals more successfully.

    1. .e 3:11 re: what motivates people

      I agree. I would guess there are people who’s motivation is not too hard to figure out, others more complicated. Do we really ever know?

    2. entech

      I sometimes wonder how many as a proportion of the population are not even sure of their own motivations.
      How many do you meet that have an opinion based on last nights news or this mornings paper, to work out where they are coming from you also need to know which news and newspaper they prefer.
      In Melbourne they have two main papers, one of them was once two the Sun and the Herald, one morning one evening, Both owned by one Rupert Murdock, the sun was a tabloid complete with page 3 girls and all the rest, the other was a broadsheet and very conservative. When I arrived here, to marry a local girl almost 50 years ago, there was graffiti that read, If you can’t think read the Herald, if you can’t read buy the Sun.” Now combined it maintains the worst of both of its predecessors.

      1. Henry

        entech, you forgot one.

        Then there is “The Age” affectionately known as “that Pinko rag”. Longtime newspaper, which in 1966 decided to shift to “left liberalism”. Left liberalism doesn’t seem to be working out nowadays. Sounds like they are cutting 1900 positions and becoming a tabloid.

        1. entech

          “In Melbourne 2 main papers”, HeraldSun and The Age. You are right (in extremis 🙂 ), I did not mention the Age and yes a lot of people do consider it to be a “pinko rag” mostly readers of “the other”, At the same time Age readers think only bogans read that “fascist rag”. (confession: I am an Age subscriber delivered daily to my breakfast table – and then past on to a neighbor; re-use much greener than re-cycling don’t you think?).

          They still have a large and loyal following but like so many, Murdoch included, they are succumbing to the digital age. The Age does have what YOU might call a left wing bias, but is in local terms ‘middle if the road’ it is just that the road is a lot wider here. The Age has regular articles by conservative writers, two or three from the old “Howard” government – little Johnny was very proud of Bush calling him my little man of steel, because of his willingness to bypass parliament to support any war effort – at the same time to dumb to realise who the original man of steel was (Hint in Russian it translates as stalin), a couple of declared free market libertarians and some whom we would regard as being a bit left of centre liberal and YOU would think of as downright socialist or worse. Not so much the other paper, the Murdoch paper, the nearest they have to a left liberal would be some one like Bill O’Reilly everyone else rather more conservative than O’Reilly.

          Bogan, hard to translate, in English English they would say Yob or Yobbo. Something like a redneck but a little more gentile.

  2. June

    You know, why does everything you do have to have a reason?? I might like to buy a duplex and rent it out to young families with little children. OMG, I can not do that. It means I am descriminating, where in reality, I may just want to help out young people, just starting out. So I do not have rental property [although I managed a couple of properties some years ago]. Not entirely different than I might choose to donate to an animal group rather than the United Way or the Salvation Army. Or, as I have done the past few years, to a group who helps a “certain group” of people in need — many of them HIV positive, but not all. However, all are connected to a certain group. My choice and it is called FREEDOM. Unfortunately, when I am dictated to as to what I can do, it infringes on MY FREEDOMS.

    1. June 4:16 “My choice is called FREEDOM.”
      It seems to me the relevent question is, “Who’s freedom, and, when?” Some gave up “freedom” when restaurants had to serve people regardless of race and public school were integrated. We still can decide who we invite into our homes.

      I think equal opportunity for all is in what is called the common good. Others may not agree.

      1. entech

        Yes freedom from or freedom to. As a liberal minded person I would say as well that your freedom should not impinge on the freedom of others. Subject to “the harm principle”.

        1. entech 2:05 “…your freedom should not impinge on the freedom of others.”

          That phrase, “freedom”, and the phrase, “religious liberty” is bandied about here in the U. S. so much just now in reference to our Affordable Health Care Act. Our health care has the lowest quality and highest cost in the industrialized countries. There needs to be standarization and oversight. Already, with only parts of Affordable Health in place, the costs have started for fall.

          The people who don’t want to lose their “freedom”, don’t seem to mind stardardized highways and airlines with government regulation of infinite parts of them, speed limits, pilot testing and so on. These things are in place for our health and safety. The same people don’t complain about restuarant sanitation inspections, also done for health reasons.

          Ultimate freedom would be to have none of these laws regulating transportation or food. The cost of both would be less. But, we would not have freedom from health worries when using these parts of the economy.

          1. Henry

            And so we move further towards a managed economy. Soon, everyone can enjoy their rice cooker. Freedom to possess (not necessarily own) a rice cooker. We’ve come a long ways.

          2. Henry

            Jon: “Already, with only parts of Affordable Health in place, the costs have started for fall.”

            For whom? All the rates are going up. Between the local takeover of my healthcare organization and Obambacare, I have noted the cost of a simple office visit before insurance has doubled in the last couple of years. Now, premiums are going up to pay for those who are not contributing. Some cases I have heard is 25% increase in one year. Beyond that, once Obambacare is fully effective, the system will be so overwhelmed with demand (free healthcare) that the supply cannot keep up. We will have to import those extra doctors they have down there in Cuber.

          3. Henry 8:10 “…once Obamacare is fully effective, the system will be so overwhelmed with demand the system cannot keep up.”

            Another prediction, like those I blogged about. My prediction is the system will not be overwhelmed with demand.

            The season is always open for predictions of all kinds.

          4. Henry

            Yes. I guess you could also say Canada’s socialized medicine is not overwhelmed, unless you are the one waiting two years to see the cardiologist. So, you are right. It likely won’t affect us.

            See you at the Y. We both better take care of ourselves.

          5. entech

            Gee, must be something wrong in Canada, I go to a ‘subsidised’ cardiologist and get an appointment within a week, Of course I have to get a referral from my GP (ordinary doctor) who has a clinic with a few doctors, quick to see and because of my age, no charge, over and above the government subsidy, the “levy” is only a small percentage of salary 1% – 1.5% depending on income. If you can afford private health insurance is a good idea, when I had heart tests a few years ago, the doctor doing the tests asked if I was seeing the Cardiologist any time soon this was a Wednesday, I told him the following Tuesday. Before the end of the week the cardiologist phone to cancel the Tuesday appointment because he had booked me in for surgery on the Monday.
            I had cataracts in a few days, osteo I am trying to avoid but again a few days. For people without insurance for what is classed as ‘elected’ surgery osteo, for instance, the waiting list could be a couple of years for a free operation.

            If you want to be libertarian and have a total free market, no government or limited government, you should accept the necessary corollary, individual freedom as well, never mind Church and state, separate sex and scripture!

          6. Henry

            Jon: “Here is a happy story about socialized medicine:”

            Such drama over a case of pink eye. Glad he had a good outcome in Great Britain.

            My rellies had a similar experience. They are now both Americans. They had to sit in a waiting room in GB for eight hours for their daughter to get a chest xray for a respiratory infection. After the ordeal of an uncomfortable waiting room with a very ill child, the bill was free, despite being American.

          7. Henry 3:14 I waited 4 1/2 hours in an emergency room in Fargo to get some stitches a few years ago. The stories are all interesting, but the macro numbers are more important. Countries with socialized medicine, on the average, have better outcomes at a lower cost than the U. S. It’s not even close.

          8. Henry

            You are right. I am sure Cuber has an A+ rating for their healthcare system, complete with ’57 Chevy ambulance. Top notch. And can they ever treat a case of pink eye. Look out! (No pun intended)

          9. Henry 4:34 “I am sure Cuber has an A+ rating of the healthcare system..”

            There are a lot of U. S. citizens that go to Cuber medical school. I know a Fargoan who is in his second year there right now. Apparently, it is as good.

            You are probably right their ambulances are ’57 Chevies.

          10. Henry

            Jon: “I waited 4 1/2 hours in an emergency room in Fargo to get some stitches a few years ago.”

            As you know, they triage these kind of matters, and probably took one look at you and saw that you were a tough guy.

          11. Henry

            Jon: “Apparently, it is as good.”

            And they give Bachman’s husband a bad time for a sheepskin from a diploma mill. Now, it is ok. That makes me feel better, now.

        2. entech

          Henry reminds of a quote from a man who was not an atheist, far from it, in fact.

          “People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.”
          — Soren Kierkegaard

  3. .e

    June, yes it is freedom. But freedom isn’t unlicensed. I think this group talks about the edges of freedom and where lines are or should be drawn.
    When people drift along with the media and other cultural forces, they are letting these forces choose for them. Probably just the nature of people, but it is irritating to me.

  4. entech

    Freedom or Liberty, probably two ways of saying the same thing, European languages don’t have two words for the same thing, Either from the Latin languages Liberté, or Germanic Freiheit.

    There seems to be two concepts of Liberty, Positive and Negative. The distinctions and definitions go back to Kant and the enlightenment, Isaiah Berlin was very good on this – well worth reading The Two Concepts of Liberty.

    Negative liberty implies the absence of obstacles, impediments and constraints or barriers.
    Positive liberty is about the possibility of acting, or perhaps, the fact of acting.

    Two Concepts of Liberty, the classic scenario to describe the difference is:
    You have an important appointment and are driving to the station to catch a train that will get you there in plenty of time, the next train will get you there a little late.
    On the way there is a fork in the road, left goes to the station and right into the town, there is no congestion or road blocks, not impediments of any kind you are free to take either direction. Complete liberty to act as you will.

    There is a complication, however, you are addicted to cigarettes, and you have run out and are desperate to get to the tobacconists to replenish your supply.

    You don’t feel free, you don’t feel as if you are driving but more that you are being driven. Your desire to make the meeting on time is in conflict with your urge to smoke, you turn the wheel a little left, then a little right as you approach the fork.

    This story gives us two contrasting ways of thinking of liberty. In one way you can think of liberty as the freedom from constraint, or are free to make any decision you like, no one is going to stop you. In the story you could turn left or right.
    But if you think of liberty as being control of the part of the agent. Freedom implies self-determination you must be able to control your own destiny in your own interest. in the story, in this sense you are not free you are not in control as you fail to control a passion, an addiction, which is preventing you from making a clear choice in what you recognise are your true interests.
    Freedom in the first sense can be thought of as the roads available to you, in the second it is about choosing the right road for the right reasons.

    It would be interesting to see a scriptural interpretation of this. And even more interesting to see how many there are and if they are consistent and/or compatible.

  5. entech

    During today’s nine hour drive, I entertained myself a while listening to Christian right radio.
    Strange thing to do, for me it would be so boring that I would go to sleep at the wheel.
    On the other hand, as the economists say, it could make you so irritated that you would be wide awake.

  6. Michael Ross

    “Predicted also is Obama will bankrupt the government and cause run away inflation.”

    Consider that done. Although it didn’t start with Obama. I would say it started with Woodrow Wilson and the founding of the Fed. In a real world the the economy has been bankrupt for many years and the US$ has been hyperinflation into oblivion. The debt and inflation is hanging out there in the financial markets, particularly in the bond market. This bubble is like a dam about to burst. When it does all that inflation will come into the economy at once. It will blow the $ to pieces. Did the prophet Isaiah foresee this event?:
    Chapter 30:
    13Therefore this iniquity will be to you
    Like a breach about to fall,
    A bulge in a high wall,
    Whose collapse comes suddenly in an instant,

    14Whose collapse is like the smashing of a potter’s jar,
    So ruthlessly shattered
    That a sherd will not be found among its pieces
    To take fire from a hearth
    Or to scoop water from a cistern.”

    In other words there will be nothing left of this monetary system. This event will be a reset button for our civilization.This is “the Unstated Ultimate Ends of Political Efforts”

    1. Michael 6:43 “…there will be nothing left of this monetary system.”

      The blog was about predictions like yours. And mine, which is that mostly everything will remain as it has been. Like I wrote, the season for making predictions is always open.

  7. I must not be reading the correct lefty web sites because I’ve never heard of anyone who’s looking to impose “complete control of social values, forced abortions and homosexuality”.

    1. sea 6:47 “…I’ve never heard of anyone looking to impose complete social control, forced abortions and homosexuality.”

      I recall reading approximately this from our commenters. It was discussed throughly on the radio program I was listening to. Like you, it was news to me.

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