While I will be voting for Obama, in some ways I wish Romney would win. It might trigger some great discussions about the differences between traditional Christian faith and Mormonism.
Without a background in theology, my understanding of the split between Mormonism and the traditional faith is limited. But there is one issue they definitely do not agree on, the Trinity. The Trinity is, of course, the concept that Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit are one unit, one god.
While, the story of Joseph Smith, how he came to lead the Church and his many wives, seems bizarre to me, an equally bizarre aspect in traditional Christianity is the Trinity. How could it be the three are one?
Equally bizarre are the explanations of where the concept came from. Was it something implied in the Bible, but never stated explicitly? Was it something cobbled together by Constantine for political ends?
Whatever the traditional explanation, it has not been convincing enough to hold its ground against every other branch of Christianity. Some branches have blown it off.
One of those is Mormonism. Today, a Mormon writer took the Trinity to task. He starts out by saying it is not his goal to bash any of his fellow Christians, but then proceeds to bash them.
The Mormon reason for not believing in the Trinity is, “it is not Biblical”. Because there were many versions of the Bible and they are full of contradictions, it is easy to make this assertion.
http://ldsmag.com/article/1/11409
I can understand your confusion Jon. The first part of the problem seems to be in the fact that different things were “revealed” to different people. The second part is that the entity that inspired and guided the hand of Moses and those that came after couldn’t seem to express things very well, it is, of course, all true and the infallible word of this entity, this gives rise to confusion and apparent contradiction.
Perhaps the two aspects could be explained by saying that “revealed” is code for I made it up, and, the inspiration was internal to the writers to whom it was revealed (see earlier qualification about revelation).
entech 1:13 “revealed is code for I make it up.”
That should be taught in all classes on the Bible.
John, since MOST Christians are of the Catholic, Protestant and the Orthodox Churches I would say the Trinity is still winning. They represent something like 95% of all Christians.
Mormons total about 14.4 million. Traditional Christians about 2.2 billion and frankly most of we lay people are not too concerned what the Mormons think of us. What we do know is that they do follow the 10 Commandants and do not call for fetwahs against other people and call for the death of all those who do not worship as they do.
Jon: “How could it be the three are one?”
Rather than attempting to fully define the Trinity with our finite human minds, we would be better served by focusing on the fact of God’s greatness and His infinitely higher nature.
“Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?” (Romans 11:33-34).
“For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5)
As you may have noticed I am not a true believer, but perhaps you could explain how you get three out of this.
“… perhaps yo could explain how you get three out of this.” You can’t. This single verse does not contain the Tri-unity. It does however reffer to the human nature of Christ. The other nature of Christ is the Divine. (The two Natures in Christ, ; De Duaubus Naturis in Christo). There are many verses elswhere that reffer to each one of the persons in the Triunity, but I won’t bore you with them, as you reject them anyway. In short, you reject the Triunity by selectively using a verse that does not contain it.
” Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one.” (Mark 12:29)
How about this then? and you can take the whole section 28 to 34
I’m not going to swap verses with someone who rejects them in the first place. Do you think this is a “You show me yours, and I will show you mine?” Silly boy. I would encourage you to read (da) book, both Testaments. This could be a pass-fail for you.
Interesting article on Christian Post today entitled ; “Are Atheists Smarter than Christians”? Looks like Pietism has influenced Atheism too.
Actually no verse(s) expound the theory anything like the creeds, as you say though doesn’t matter because I am not a true believer, just that Michael loves quoting – didn’t really expect a wanna response.
The who is smarter question ? Doubt that there would be much difference on average – probably find that the more vehement and angry atheist is below average as is the extreme fundamentalist.
Traditionally, we have been taught that we are “made in the image of God.” I am one entity, but I find that I have “3 parts;” my mind, will and emotions, thought of as the soul; my spirit, which responds differently depending on if it is Sat. morning or Mon. morning; and my body, which feels good or bad depending on what my soul and spirit are up to. So, I could be considered a “trinity” in one being. Perhaps these 3 expressions of me are the way I am “made in the image of God.” The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are 3 expressions of one Being; God.
Margaret 2:36 Thanks for commenting. Please do so again.
Is there a scriptural basis for your mind, will and emotions being your soul? I had never heard that.
“Here we go with the Trinity again”——— NO ! ! There YOU go with the Trinity again.
Jon: “While I will be voting for Obama”. How can you or any liberal vote for Obama after escalating the war in Afghanistan, starting a war with Libya, currently prosecuting five (5) drone wars (Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, and who knows where else) and fighting a proxy war in Syria but supporting the rebels with weapons and money? And providing $trillions in bailouts for Wall street and corporate giants. I know you could not vote for Romney but you would say more by not voting. You know the saying: “Don’t vote, it only encourages them”. Or like myself, I plan to write-in Ron Paul. He believes in the Trinity so I suppose that disqualifies him as far your concerned.
Michael 4:34 Believing in the Trinity does not disqualify Ron Paul–I suppose Obama does too. I had not realized Ron Paul is behind the “audit” of the Federal Reserve until pk discussed it. Really strange to me.
“Believing in the Trinity does not disqualify Ron Paul”
Glad to hear that Jon. You truely are a “Freethinker”.
Jon:“While I will be voting for Obama,”
Do you really want the current crop of demolisioncrats to bring forth a candidate for CIC?
http://www.navytimes.com/mobile/news/2012/09/navy-russian-warships-displayed-dnc-veterans-tribute-091112
Henry 10:37 It does seem like Democrats can’t pull off the military macho thing like Republicans. Dukakus rode in a tank, Kerry played up his miliarty to the hilt and it was ridiculed and now this.
Jon: “It does seem like Democrats can’t pull off the military macho thing like Republicans.”
And why should that be?….Roosevelt….Truman….history seems to be there for the democrats. It seems like we have a new breed of demolitioncrat, either born under a redwood tree back in the sixties or over in indonesia. Old school democrats are extinct, or the last one is in a nursing home.
Here’s a macho pic:
http://www.luls4.me/better-forgotten-like-that-idiotic-photo-of-dukakis-in-the-tank_1809.html