Can the Unthinkable Become Commonplace?

I recall well a day in 1984.  It was the day before I released as the Mayor of the largest city in North Dakota the first ever proclamaion declaring a Gay and Lesbian Awareness Week.

I was nervous.  I didn’t know what people would say or think about this.

Today, there are at least a couple gay candidates running for office in the Fargo area.  There are gay people in Congress and at least one gay Governor.

Far behind is acceptance by the public of those who are not religious.  But, efforts for change are underway.

This past weekend the first Rally for Reason was held in Washington, D. C.  At least a couple members of our local Red River Freethinkers were there.  I wish I could have attended.

Military bases are now hosting secular rallies for men and women in the armed services.  The myth that being placed in harm’s way automatically brings one into the family of believers has been promoted for many decades. It is only now being dispelled.

Unbelief billboards are going up all across the U. S. and ads will be appearing soon on the CBS news.  One would suppose this will create the feeling for people who do not believe in the faith there are like-minded folks around  them.

Surely all would agree these are positive events. It is better if everyone is able to let others know who they are, gay or straight, and what they think, belief or not.

Avatar of Jon Lindgren

About Jon Lindgren

I am a former President of the Red River Freethinkers in Fargo, ND, a retired NDSU economics professor and was Mayor of Fargo for 16 years. There is more about me at Wikipedia.com.
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21 Responses to Can the Unthinkable Become Commonplace?

  1. Avatar of Mac Mac says:

    Jon, you do realize this has all been prophesied in the Bible. It’s always simply been a question of when it would take place, not if.

    Although I suppose the same was said when blacks married whites and women wore pants and were allowed to vote. I also recall a flap in the 70s that barcodes were the mark of the beast and our days were numbered. There’s extensive verses about everything requiring a ‘mark’ in order to be purchased, and unless people had this ‘mark’ they couldn’t trade and would eventually be shunned and starve to death.

    • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

      Mac 11:44 I had forgotten about the bar code as “mark”.

      Among the other such “insights” that come to mind is the Proctor and Gamble logo, something demonic there. Oh, there was “Puff and Magic Dragon” being about drugs, the gay Tella Tubby, etc. You know, the worst thing about being my age is I don’t have 50 more years to be amused by entertaining religion.

      • entech says:

        Don’t despair Jon, good clean living and daily prayer could save you from heaven for a good part of those fifty years.

  2. Avatar of stormchaser stormchaser says:

    My step father in law’s son was the mayor of a town in Wyoming. He was the first (and only I believe) gay mayor in Wyoming.

  3. entech says:

    You only have to go to places like Iran and you will find the unthinkable is commonplace. Go back a few hundred years and the unthinkable was commonplace through most of Europe.
    If you live as if there was a single creator of everything and you are a part of a special creation and you know what that creator wants for his creation. Then you too can create an unthinkable situation and make it commonplace. This is surely the ultimate blasphemy, we have an omnipotent god who created everything, knows everything but he still needs me to do his work. :roll:

    • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

      entech 12:19 “..we have an omnipotent god who created everything, knows everything but he still needs me to do his work.”

      Yeah, go figure. (Do you use “go figure” in Austrialia? It’s such a fun figure of speech.)

      • entech says:

        More likely to say “you work it out” with the same meaning. Probably common to both is, when some one is complaining about something and you agree “tell me about it” ?
        Idioms can get you into trouble though, in agreement I will sometimes say, “funny you should say that”, the unspoken part is “because that is what I was going to say”. To be shouted at and told I wasn’t trying to be funny.

        So when two countries speaking the same language can have problems imagine translating from ancient Hebrew to modern American English.

        • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

          entech 2:30 “You work it out” seems pretty close. Also perhaps, “go figure it out even though it doesn’t make sense.”

          I agree what was meant in ancient Hebrew must be a shot in the dark many times. (Whoops, shot in the dark, another idiom).

  4. Doubtful says:

    It seems to me there is some faulty logic at work here. Your personal experience indicates that Fargo was willing to accept an atheist Mayor years ago so how do you determine that accepting agnostic/atheist people is unthinkable?

    There are some other parallels that you seem to assume that are not quite parallels. I think most of the people in this country are willing to accept people of no or different faith. Harder is to accept people of no or different faith that feel they must convert others. It is often the case that atheist gatherings have as a goal at least expressing disapproval of those of faith, rather than celebrating their own ways. It is hard to avoid this and I don’t think most who want to rally even try. In fact I think they mostly rally to reinforce their idea that they are better more reasonable people than that other group. The name “Rally for Reason” implies that the “others” do not use reason. That is pretty derogatory. So how are we to categorize a group that exists and identifies themselves with being the antithesis of another group? Seems pretty negative to me. Certainly not practicing a live and let live philosophy.

    • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

      Doubtful 2:19 “..Fargo was willing to accept an atheist Mayor…”

      That Fargo would have accepted, or, would accept today an atheist Mayor is probably unthinkable. I was called a murderer (because of I supported the women’s clinic that performed abortions) and a fagget (because of gay rights), but never something so terrible as an atheist. I was a practicing Christian all those years.

  5. Michael Ross says:

    “For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away;” (Matthew 24:37-39)

    The word “coming” means “presence”, in judgment. It Does not mean the physical return of Christ to the earth which will occur at the end of history.

    Note the conditions of society when this flood judgment fell: “they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage”. Sounds like boom times. Jesus also said: ” Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.” Judgment doesn’t fall in the depths of depression. It falls when the majority are still unaware.

    “Eating and drinking”: Go to a bar and grill you can barely get into the parking lot.
    “Marrying and giving in marriage”: In other words marriage is like it was in the days of Noah, the institution in the same condition. Does this mean gay “marriage”. It does according to the Babylonian Talmud: http://gcmwatch.wordpress.com/2008/06/24/gay-marriage-the-days-of-noah-return/ Nowhere else in history has gay “marriage” been recognized until now. Even in decadent Rome where homosexuality was rampant they didn’t call it marriage.

    God condemns homosexuality in the strongest possible term: “Abomination” Jesus also said: “So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place”(Matt 24:15). Marriage is called Holy Matrimony and is to present a picture of Christ and His Church. If gay “marriage” is the Abomination of Desolation then the time is at hand since it is recognized in seven states and our nation’s capitol and even in some churches. It is time to flee (vs 17). Get out of Dodge, out of paper assets, away from big cities, and other steps of self preservation.

    This judgment is not against America since America was judged years ago (1913{founding of the Federal Reserve} if you want to put a date on it). It is against Babylon the Great which has taken America and much of the world captive.

    • Doctor Love says:

      Ah the Federal Reserve. The Mark of the Beast. Numerology.

      We have always been in the end times–likely even farther back than the 6,000 years that flat earther…er…young Earth Creationists claim is the age of the earth.

      REPENT!

      See: Name of the Rose

      • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

        Doctor 8:14 Thanks for the first time comment. Yes, “Name of the Rose” is an appropriate response to manipulation of words to obtain “one-up” in a debate. Some folks here do it regularly.

    • Avatar of Mac Mac says:

      Okay, here’s my question: if ‘coming’ REALLY means ‘presence’, how do we know ‘abomination’ doesn’t REALLY mean ‘blessed’?

      This is beyond any doubt my biggest objection with fundamentalism: people manipulating scripture to serve their specific purpose, which almost always includes God’s wish they despise someone.

      Society needs more people using the Bible as a blueprint for living a positive, productive and godly life; and less people using it as a 3 pound block for smacking people they don’t like.

      (and once again, for the record: gay’s don’t give a rat’s @ss about getting married in anyone’s church. they want the protection of the more than 1,000 laws purchasing a license from a state government provides)

      • Michael Ross says:

        ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION

        des-o-la’-shun: The Hebrew root for abomination is shaqats, “to be filthy,” “to loathe,” “to abhor,” from which is derived shiqquts, “filthy,” especially “idolatrous.” This word is used to describe specific forms of idolatrous worship that were specially abhorrent, as of the Ammonites (1 Kings 11:5, 7); of the Moabites (1 Kings 11:7 2 Kings 23:13). When Daniel undertook to specify an abomination so surpassingly disgusting to the sense of morality and decency, and so aggressive against everything that was godly as to drive all from its presence and leave its abode desolate, he chose this as the strongest among the several synonyms, adding the qualification “that maketh desolate” (Daniel 11:31; Daniel 12:11), Septuagint bdel-ug-ma er-e-mo-se-os. The same noun, though in the plural, occurs in Deuteronomy 29:17 2 Kings 23:24; Isaiah 66:3 Jeremiah 4:1; Jeremiah 7:30; Jeremiah 13:27; Jeremiah 32:34 Ezekiel 20:7, 8, 30 Daniel 9:27 Hosea 9:10; Zechariah 9:7. The New Testament equivalent of the noun is bdel-ug-ma = “detestable,” i.e. (specially) “idolatrous.” Alluding to Daniel, Christ spoke of the “abomination of desolation” (Matthew 24:15 Mark 13:14).

    • Avatar of Jon Lindgren Jon Lindgren says:

      Micheal 6:26 “The word ‘coming’ means ‘presense’ in judgment. I does not mean the physical return of Christ to the earth…”

      I have to agree with Mac and the Doctor with your use of words. I’m especially skeptical when one uses the phrase “means” in reference to words in the Bible. It opens to door to any interpretation, which is what has actually happened.

      I enjoy blogging about the Commandment, “Remember the Sabbath and keep is holy.” That used to “mean” don’t work on Sunday. Now it “means”, remember it’s Sunday, not Monday.

      Anytime I see or hear the word “means” I hope there is some tricky stuff coming up next.

    • Wanna B Sure says:

      Michael Ross; Jehovah’s witness????

  6. entech says:

    Can the Unthinkable Become Commonplace?

    The danger would seem to be insanity becoming the norm.

  7. entech says:

    Not only is there a god but he has a huge sense of humour.
    Many sites these days have sponsoring adverts, Mr. Ross aims us at a page for Christians who like to watch homosexuals, it is sponsored by “Lumosity” a self help program that advertises that it will help you improve your brain function. :razz:
    Go figure.

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