The interesting new project by former Pastor, Dan Barker, to provide a site for current Pastors who no longer believe, provided interviewees for TV journalist, Dianne Sawyer. Some of the dialogue provided in site into what happens when Pastors lose belief.
One current Baptist Pastor said he had read books by new atheists in order to arm himself against challenges by non believers. “I thought this God was big enough to handle anything that came up,” he said. As time went on, he found even God could not handle the questions raised.
The way he tried to deal with challenges is a common one. That there are not convincing arguments to set right the seemingly fictitious stories in the Bible is of no concern because somewhere out there has to be an answer.
The path to non belief mentioned by the anonymous pastor is one repeated often among Freethinkers as well. Reading, and rereading, the Bible raised rather than abated their level of skepticism.
It is an interesting aspect of our psychology there would be two opposite reactions to the Bible. One group reads it and reinforces their faith, another loses faith.
These different experiences seem simply a reflection of the wide variety of interpretations of the Bible. Even among those who believe, the reaction to what is contained in the Bible has thousands, maybe millions, of interpretations. This has given rise to a multitude of denominations and branches within each.
The Bible provides two doors to the faith, an entrance and an exit.
For me it is mostly the apologists that write here that drive me further from the possibility of belief, they have certainly killed any hope for the trinity.
The most recent being that gay marriage is what made their deity so angry that he decided to kill everyone for the sins of a few, and even then had to do something stupid like drowning the animals as well? if we can have FIAT LUX wouldn’t the natural sequence be FIAT TENEBRIS. Finito la comedia.
entech 12:54 I have to admit some of the faithful are consistant. Authors of the Bible thought the end times would happen during their lifetimes. Preachers during all of Christianity have thought the end was near. Some of our friends who post here think it is eminent because of gay marriage. Apparently Jesus can move the time up if thing get too sinful down here.
The calender changes years, but a preoccupation with the end time never changes.
Esctachology, is part of the human psychological make up. We all fantasize about the end of the world, of everything, because it has to do with knowing in the back of our minds that we are going to die.
To me, it seems like a survival mechanism: If I’m going to die, perhaps everything is going to die, because how can it all go on without me? Death is hard to accept.
Something like that. Its all in the brain.
Just like religion is all in the brain.
It is envy not fear. Envy that everyone will carry on without you and have a good time and you will miss out. And there could be a touch of ego involved, how could this carry on without ME?
The fear part has been instilled by priests and shamans since the beginning, power and control over us the main fear is theirs fear of losing power and control. They forget that for some of the more enlightened people the real fear is that you might be condemned to live forever.
Jesus died for the reprobates too.
According to Calvin some are destined for paradise and some not, the ones that are not are bound to their fallen nature and damnation; the non-elect are often called the reprobate.
Dying for the reprobate must be the most futile act ever recorded.
Thinking further about it, after the flood there should not have been any reprobates left. So perhaps given everything that has happened since perhaps the flood itself was at least as futile as dying for reprobates.
Thinking further, I have got to stop commenting on these things, it only gives credence to the incredible.
So this is what happens when a queer with low intellect and intelligence is spawned. They spend their entire life infatuated by what scares them most. If you weren’t so afraid of your dismal end and what may or may not exist in the afterlife you wouldn’t need to spend 50 hours a week trying to learn more about it and attack it. The only thing you’re good for today is a science project for a student of psychiatry or someday as a cadaver in a med school. You’re opinions and contributions are utterly worthless in this dimension.
opinionated 2:53 I assume you remarks are addressed to me. There is a catch-all phrase for folks who address me in this way instead of posting arguments that challenge what I write. It’s called shooting the messenger. It’s a confidence builder for me that you do not argue with what I write.
opinianated 2:53 Who are you addressing exactly opinianated?
Opinionated 2:53 I can tell you are of a higher intelligence. I bow down to you!
Opinionated 2:53 You don’t know much about atheists, obviously. Because you are attacking Jon, for something most freethinker/atheists do, and that is that we all do actively try to learn about religion/supernatualism, dogma, doctrines, and non-belief. If you were one that did that, you’d know this is not uncommon for freethinker/atheists. Perhaps if you did know this, you wouldn’t feel the need to attack one of us so much hostility.
Yes…..we all need a lesson in politeness from Bob. LOL Here’s a common phrase for you to ponder Bob. “Let he who is without sin-oops oh never mind, you wouldn’t understand.
I think we all understand, according to Aquinas and so many others, there is no one without sin.
Jon: “Read the Bible, Lose Your Faith.”
Yes. I have heard of a number of Christian converts from atheism losing their atheistic faith.
One noteworthy example is Hitchens.
Henry 3:34 “example is Hitchens”
Are you saying Hitchesn converted? So far as I know, that is not true. Just today the American Athiest newsletter came. There was a tribute from the President of AA to Hitchens. The President said he had a nice conversation with him not long before he died–his voice was almost gone. No mention of any change in attitude.
There was a small thing on YouTube about Hitchen’s conversion. It appears that towards the end he asked for a priest and converted the priest to atheism.
It is very true. Hitchen was an atheist. Ended up a Christian. Very true.
Henry “Very true.” I looked for a story that Hitchens had converted. I could find none. What is you source of this statement?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Hitchens
Henry 4:16 Please stop saying Christopher Hitchen converted without giving us a quote as to what you read and where. I found nothing at that wiki site. Entech has posted a reliable quote. If you have some source, let’s see it.
Jon: “Please stop saying Christopher Hitchen converted”
I never said Christopher Hitchen converted. The source I provided was concerning his brother Peter who did convert.
Henry You wrote “Hitchen converted.” Practical joke, I guess.
And indeed he did. No joke.
Give it up Jon, You always get something similar, a misleading comment (in the context here) or veiled innuendo, when he is questioned he comes up with a little girly , kinder garden reply; “I never said that”, a very sick mind I am afraid.
Man up Dave and embrace your error. The only misleading was within your mind.
Interesting how many people seem to think that losing faith in the supernatural somehow leads to an automatic transference to some other faith. Clearly losing it is losing it. But some people like to project their own failings onto others, sad really.
Hi opinionated, missed your rubbish were have you been, of to some kind of masculinity lessons?
Entech, 3:04
OMG! Didn’t think you would comment like that. Ha! “masculinity lessons” lol.
As most people know Christopher and his brother Peter Hitchens were along way apart on politics and religion.
The Wikipedia entry for Peter reads in part”
Hitchens, who claimed at one time to be an atheist, is a confirmed and communicant member of the Church of England and an advocate of moral virtues founded on religious (particularly Christian) faith. He argues that these have been undermined and eroded by social liberals …
In response to queries Peter recently wrote:
Christopher Hitchens. Funeral and Memorial arrangements
First may I once again thank the many people who visited this site to express condolences on the death of my late brother, Christopher. I was most moved that so many people crossed the divide of opinion to do so.
Second, I felt I should post here two facts that, although they are to be found on the Internet, are still unknown to many.
Some people have asked me when and where my brother’s funeral took place. In fact, as Christopher donated his body to medical science, there has not been and will not be any funeral. He took this decision partly because of his religious (or rather non-religious) opinions, and partly because, much influenced by his friend Jessica Mitford and her book ‘The American Way of Death’, he disliked what he regarded as the excesses of the American funeral industry.
Peter Hitchens Mail OnLine 18 January 2012 12:12 PM
The underline was added by me, I hope this from his brother will put an end to any stupid remarks about his conversion.
Just noticed the justification for the claim that Hitchens had converted. Really must start paying more attention, I am just not used to this level of deceit.
As usual, blame others for your error.
Really must start paying more attention, This is what I said about myself, hardly blaming anyone but myself.
Your total disconnect with reality is beyond belief.
You also alleged deceit. I took this as blaming others.
“Your total disconnect with reality is beyond belief.”
A very spurious charge under the circumstances.
In the context of conversion it was misleading to use the name Hitchens alone and then try to say you meant his brother and not Christopher. It is well known that Peter is a religious person and the suggestion of conversion is misleading, the fact that he may have claimed to atheism in his teens (40 years ago) is deliberately misleading.
Definition of MISLEAD
transitive verb
: to lead in a wrong direction or into a mistaken action or belief often by deliberate deceit
it was in this sense that I used the word deceit.
Re 4:50 “man up an embrace your error”, OK I was, once again, in error, I made the catastrophic mistake of treating you seriously.
It is also well known that Christopher Hitchen did not convert and conversion would have been out of character for him. This leaves his well-known brother Peter as the one who could have converted. No deceit, only a matter of logical deduction for those who are interested.
I wonder how it happened that Peter became the black sheep of the family?
Jon 4:02 THAT is choice Jon. I love it. lol.